yeah! down with karate. but i still think tae-kwon-do is the best martial art (not 2 mention olympic sport)

hah, ox you obviously have no actual experience, kicks may be more powerful but their often impractical for the majority of a fight simply because either a. your too close to your opponent (most of the time a fight takes place with the fighters 1-2 feet apart, 1 foot is at most peoples knees and while you may be able to get a kick in at 2 feet its probably going to be at your shin or ankle, not your foot and kicking anywhere above thigh level at that range can get your leg caught which means you're either going to the mat or you're going lose part of your face) or b. you're too far away so you have to close distance, and what does you're opponent do if you close distance and he doesn't want to, or thinks you're coming in for a kick? he backs up.

and what makes karate any less of a martial art than anything else?

Jeet kune do has specially designed forward kicks, with only a few inches away from your apponent you can strike and also kicks designed with movement, that you can do with meters of space,,,your obviuosly just a kid and not a martial artist

TAE-KWON-DO is an olympic sport but it means nothing killbill, its only in the olympic because its...............!! you can make up the rest, but its not there for its skills is more likly its there for its lack of violence due to limitation... while Kung fu is dangerouse, and is not very limited unlike tae-kwon which every thing is limited and there for can consider as a safe sport. "tae-kwon do is just fancy thats it man"

chinese kung fu "which means all chinese arts" is for naturlising the oponant in there weakest link and tae kwon do has manylike no close combat self denfence

thats right kung fu wing chun and jdk is speically for close combat, for all people that think kung fu is not the best heres a list of people that use it, the russia kgb (There CIA) the international CIA, elite and royal gaurds navy seals, commando, uk sas, and most speical forces. go download wing chun clips!!! or Kung fu it will include all types of chinese arts

I amused by hearing some of this garbage, no offense.
Tae-Kwon-Do/Karate/Tang Soo Do/Kung-Fu/Wushu/Wing chun etc.

These arts suck badly, and I see someone had the nerve to say Judo sucks, thats bull.

Lets look shall we, what styles are used in...
K-1; Muay Thai, nothing else even get a look in, why? because Muay Thai is the best fist/elbow/feet/knee fighting art there is, enough said.

UFC/Pride FC; Wrestling, Sambo, Judo, Boxing, Muay Thai, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu; why no karate/kung fu? Becaue they DONT WORK. Watch some of the earlier UFCs and youll see what I mean, guys from 5 animals/ TKD blackbelts all thought they had great systems, what happened? They ALL GOT SMOKED.

Switch to MMA boys, leave the silly action films alone.

ur a fag. u have no knowledge of martial arts, or tae-kwon-do for that matter. tae-kwon-do is a full contact sport. it is not limited. and by the way- kung-foo sucks. jeet-kune-do is good, but kung-foo sux. its so outdated. they cant fight. they just a bunch of loosers who like 2 act like animals. "o, look at my tiger stance. dont i look tough." tae-kwon-do is a real martial art. not only that- most tae-kwon-do teachers also teach deadly hapkido, if tae-kwon-do isnt deadly enough for ya. and tae-kwon-do isnt considered a "safe sport" u fuckin idiot. i am a red belt and if u think its safe, u might wanna think again. we do full contact sparin and we get hurt all the time. and kung-fu doesnt have all different martial arts in it. its old and outdated. how does it have other martial arts in it when it was one of the 1st ones? tae-kwon-do is newer and kore advanced. they took the good stuff from all the other martial arts and left out the gay crap like "animal stances". and tae-kwon-do is all about speed and techniek. and Muay Thai sucks! for the faggit who had 2 nerve 2 say shit like "the tae-kwon-do master got smoked" or wutever u little faggit. ill come 2 ur house little bitch and ill show u who gets smoked.juda sucks ass. it doesnt work for shit

this is for the saturday or wut ever the fuck that faggit call himself. judo suck big elephant dick. they cant fight. all they do is flip. id like 2 beat the shit out of all those judo fags. and show them what a real art is. u have no rite 2 say tkd, tang soo du or wushu suck. u suck. and juda isnt even a martial art. and muay thai suck ass to. i dont care how to spell it. but it doesnt work. iv seen it, and it sucks

This is mainly in retaliation to "intercepting_fist". His comment, titled 'jkd idiot', about how tae kwon do is better than the rest. I can tell you now it isn't. I specialise in Kung-Fu (yes the one with the animals!). Kicks arn't everything... i could block/re-direct anyone of your kicking attacks with my index finger! Kicks are too easy to to re-direct! Um... the deadly Hapkido?!?! HAHAHAHA! Hapkido ain't deadly! its for self defence!
The reason that Kung-Fu has a lot of other stlyed techniques in it is because its, like, the oldest martial art! Karate originated from from our straight punch! Thats why we have lots of the techniques! Ninjitsu formed from a MONK and a samuria warrior!
Also, if Kung-Fu is so crap. Why can a shaolin monk take 6 ounches from the world heavy-weight champion and not flinch? or being kicked in the balls 5 times without flinching? or doing a handstand on ONE FINGER? or how about balancing on two spears? So how is it crap?!?!
My "Animal" skills would be MORE than enough to take down your red belt!

ur smart..not! hapkido isnt deadly BEACUSE its for self-defence? thats the dumbest thing i ever heard. its still deadly!

I think i may have made a mistake
did you mean, "deadly hapkido" as a different style as general hapkido or are you saying that hapkido is a deadly style? because Hapkido is a defensive style, not an offencsive. Every style is deadly. hell... my grandma with a knife is deadly

Seriously, you guys need to see what's actually happening in the real world where martial arts are meeting - download some K1, Pride and UFC fights. The kung-fu and TKD guys got owned early on, and don't even show up these days - the only things that get taken seriously are muay thai, boxing, western wrestling, brazilian jiu-jitsu, and sometimes judo.

Have a look at some of the fights, and try to get your hands on some early UFC fights - you'll be amazed just how poorly win-chun and TKD guys do. The only people left are people who crosstrain grappling and a serious striking art like boxing or muay thai.

Some interesting comments made, but alot of people seem to have a lot of talk and nothing to back it up with! The ignorance and cockiness of some people on this site absolutely astounds me. You can't just say that a martial art is balls unless you have first-hand experience of it, and even then it is down to the competence of the fighter. I have studied ITF (the military not the sport version) of Taek-won Do for 2 years, and have found it great in some aspects and very limited in others. To say it is useless is untrue- you just need to be very competent to make some of the leg techniques works - this means a high Dan black belt, not just any 'black belt'. In UFC if a Taekwon-Do stylist is beaten easily, it's just because the other guy was probably a much better rounded fighter, not that TKD is useless! The UFC fighters as a whole are not the best in the world, so their abilities do not reflect the true capabilities of many martial artists. I have recently started ninjitsu, and am looking into finding a reputable Muay Thai instructor, as i agree with llamatron, it is a very effective martial art. I think being well balanced is important. I think it's fair to say though that a UFC fighter of a similar weight catagory would have a hard time against the world ITF Taekwon-Do champion. Those on this website who are so quick to slag off various arts clearly don't know there stuff, and i imagine can't fight. A true martial artist has respect for and judges the individual, not the art, and is willing to learn anything useful, from whatever style it may be. Oh and INTERCEPTING FIST you are a disgrace to TKD with that kind of talk! A red belt isn't really that impressive, especially when you consider that a black belt is considered 'basic competency' ( That's why there are 9 black belts to earn). Red belt is two belts and a minimum 1 year away from a black belt. You could earn a red belt from scratch in 2 and a half years if you persisted. Hardly enough to say you could have someone doing muay thai or judo etc! If you were a good artist you would not be so disrespectful to other styles. I hope you do encounter a decent Muay Thai fighter. I wouldn't fancy your chances! Give yourself a couple more years training, and a dash more modesty 'intercepting fist'! On a lighter note, have you seen Ong-Bak? Never seen a TKD stylist (good one at that) recieve such a beating by a Muay Thai fighter in my life! Great Film. Tony Jaa is very impressive. ''A real martial artist deems violence to be the last resort''

please just shut up. u dont kno anything about tae-kwon-do. red belt nothing much? id kick ur ass if i knew were u lived. u learn tkd in the military, oooooh. ur a freekin idiot. they do the BASICS in the military. everyone who learns shit in the military acts so tough, when they have no right to say anything. muay thai? let me tell u somthing. ill let u study muay thai for 3 years. then ill beat the shit out of u. just to make it even, considering u only kno the basics in tkd!u act like u kno so much when ur just a wannabe martial art retard. i kno more and im more deticated and talented then u are by far. if u wanna talk shit..just tell me where u live. i dont like to be as disrespectful as i am, but u really piss me of.retard wannabes like u. tellin me that iv worked hard for nothing. nothing special?? 1st of all..black belt in ur faggit military 'basic' training isnt much. im with the wtf (world tae-kwon-do federation) in case u didnt kno. red belt is blood belt in case u dont kno what that means (considering u kno nothing of tkd) that mean that when ur supose to train ur hardest..for black belt. iv got 3 months and im goin for black belt. when i get a black belt, i get a paper and a little card (like a drivers license) i bring that to korea to train and im automatically reconized as a black belt in wtf.

You seem unable to read and spell. I didn't say i know everything in TKD. I am lucky though to have been taught by an international Dan instructor. Ok, red belt is a high STUDENT belt, but it doesn't mean you are as hard as a brick wall. I don't understand why you are threatening me with violence. You sound very insecure. Why would you want to 'kick my ass'. A fundamental tenant of TKD is that you shouldn't misuse your skills. Threatening another TKD artist doesn't reflect well on you. Because you can't read, i will try again. You see, i'm a nice guy! I didn't say i studied TKD in the military. I said that the ITF version of TKD is based on the Korean military version of TKD. This is what TKD is derived from. The WTF version of TKD, which you apparently study, is based on the same techniques but modified for competition. As such some of the techniques are limited to reflect the rules of the ring. This is not the case with ITF. ITF is the 'pure' form of TKD so to speak as developed by General Choi, the founder of TKD. Not saying that one type is better than the other though! Both have their merits. Oh, i didn't say you worked hard for nothing. You may be quite good for a red belt. I doubt that you would be though considering your attitude. The way you are threatening me is horrible and unnecessary. You have no justification to say that you could have me or anyone else for that matter based on what people say in a post! You don't know the skills of others. Yes, red belt stands for 'blood' and 'danger'. I know that. You could call it 'the power of the elephant', the description of your belt doesn't make your hard. It's a bit of cloth. Spend less time reflecting on your belt and more on your skills. Belts mean nothing. Your skills do. I doubt you will make a black belt. If you are riled enough to threaten an internet post it appears you are unable to control your temper. Their composure is something that a black belt should be able to maintain. Looks like you fail that test from your response, so guess the 'blood' red belt is well suited to you. I really don't like being offensive, but your attitude warrants it. You are an obnoxious, arrogant, egotistical, disillusioned twat. You undermine everything the WTF and TKD as a whole stands for, namely courtesy and integrity. Grow up.

i have one thing to say to u, and that is u r a fuckin cock!!! u think ur 'special'?!?! 'special' needs u cunt!!! ur a nobody, wannabe gangster, i think ur whack!!! red belt, shit u must b hard ... r u fuck ... ur jst a gimp!!! red is a shit colour anyway ... my crew ride in black ... ready for ur funeral punk!! my pimp hand is way strong G and i will slap u up if u think ur tough!! this robinJJ'S will fuck u up faggot, he seems knows his shit!! laterz u wank stain X

your a fucken idiot! If you call yourself a martial artist then why the hell would you insult someone to that degree. You obviously have no respect for other styles. Red belt in Tae Kwon do is high up, if i am correct its right before black belt (correct me if i am wrong please).
your ignorance will be your downfall if you are to ever face a tae kwon do practisioner

Red belt is a high student belt in both ITF (International Taekwon-Do Federation) and the WTF (World Taekwon-Do Federation) It would normally take a student a year to reach black belt from this point. The next belt is 1st Gup, which is a red belt with a black tag or band, and then the next belt to be graded for after this is 1st Dan black belt. Apparently, this 'Jazzy Pa' has a 'pimp hand which is way strong'!!! What style do you study Jazzy Pa?

Thought it's time to address the original post! No such thing as a 'best' martial art. You can argue that some are better than others in terms of striking/grappling etc. The practicality of most martial arts depend on the proficency of the user!

Glad you haven't replied with a load of abusive crap to my last post. I think most of my points are well substantiated. I am dismayed that people like you study TKD. I don't think your instructor would be impressed with the abuse you hand out on this site. You threatened me and said you would kick my ass. You said you train hard? Well done. So do I. I eat right, train hard in the gym, at my club, run, and practise religiously on my punch/kick bag in the back yard. Ok big man. Where do you train? Who is your instructor? He/she should be listed on the WTF website if they were a high DAN black belt. You really need to be put in your place, and preferably made an example of for your attitude and dropped from your club. There is no place for egos like yours in TKD.

r u talkin bout me? anyway..i havent posted anything in a while because i was on vacation. i dont even remember what i wrote or what i was arguing about but im sry. but screw u,to whoever has the 'strong pimp hand'. dont act tough with me u little prick. im amazed how disrespectful ppl can be. i would like to dis u more but i see 5_animals has spoken for me..thanx. anyway im sry for whatever i said before..

Fair play mate, no worries. We still haven't found out what style 'Jazzy Pa' takes though eh?

what is he even doin here? he sound like a wannabe gangster, and calling ME a wannabe gangster..1st off, i dont try to be black, unlike u. not that im raciest but im so freekin sick of white ppl tryin to act black. and if u are black, great for u, ur a retard anyway. and when exactly did i say i was 'special' u idiot? did u even read my post? if u can read that is.. u sound like a 5 year old who just learned some new swear words from is red neck, white-trash parents."look at my gay 'pimp hand' that i jack off guys with". i would like to meet u jazzy pa..so i could put ur head through the ground.

Learn to spell please. Robin owned you still. lol

your guys are funny.

hi im new to this site and i must say that i have read the forums. it is pretty dissapointing that you argue over such minor things. the point of martial arts is to achieve total control of mind and body through training, not to beat people up.
i have studied tae kwon do for 20 years now and am a instructor. i have 200 members that look up to me and my school.
in addition, i have studied other martial arts as well. i have studied mixed martial arts for the last eight years. this includes muay thai, brazillian jui-jitsu, judo, greco-roman wrestling, and boxing. all of these arts i have studied at the same time from, from the same school. they were very proficient in their teaching as well as being a fighter. i have studied for a few years of jkd as well. all of these arts have many things to provide. i must say that i do have to agree with the person who posted up that the ufc uses more effective arts.
i also fight in amatuer type of ufc fights. so studying tae kwon do has helped me very much in my training as well as it gave me a solid foundation for my game. i have fought 5 times and also i have fought nationally in tae kwon do. so all of these accusations on this site is pretty much meaningless to me because you guys seem to not understand and try to live accordingly to what martial arts is.
personally i do not like to fight, but the reason why i fight is to see my limit and how far i can go. martial art is the last thing you should use in order to resolve a conflict. and a comment to the person who has a foul mouth: you should really read and learn what real tae kwon do is. as a matter of fact, if you want i could even try to help you understand, but you need to get over yourself and be humble about your art and you. that's the first step in becoming a black belt. anyways i just wanted to put my opinion in. if you have any rejections, objections, comments, please feel free to respond back.

Hello revolution, you said you studied other martial arts other than tae kwon do, did you ever feel the need to go further with your training in the other arts. I am thinking on taking up tkd, could you tell me the good points and bad points, i would really like to know. I was reading some of the comments listed above and some of those people are real idiots, saying karate and judo suck, they are just ignorant.

wow... i was reading my comments on this topic as well... i must have been angry when i wrote some of them :P
Revolution17... 20 years of tkd... nice, what degree is are you at?
I know tkd is one of the best kicking styles... but i've also heard that tkd is thesport with the second highest knee and ankle problems (after ballet) what sort of training or exercises do you do to prevent such injuries... i found this out the other day and havn't had time to ask a tkd practishioner... so with your 20 years you seem the person to ask.
I know for certain that there is no best/worst style. Every style has their strengths and weaknesses, but everyone has their opinion on the best/worst. with your experience it would be nice to see your views.
(and if you say karate as either worst or best, please specify which one)
I now have been in Kung-Fu for just over 10 years... if you want to know more pls ask... or find it on other posts :P

so I would like to know what you guys say about Muay Thai beacause my sensie said it had some similarities to my stlye , don't blow up in my face just tell me what you think

i do a lot of muay thai in my stand up for mixed martial arts. its very effective. the kicks and strikes are good. if your looking for a solid stand up "style" then muay thai is a pretty decent choice.

Muay Thai is a very good style in my opinion... very practical too. My Sifu is married to a muay Thai FIghter, and i always enjoy him coming to teach us some of his stuff as a guest instructor... and there is not one thing that he has said where i will disagree with him... because everything he says is practical... so if this is the same for all, or at least most, muay thai classes i say good choice.

All the shit u guys r saying is all wrong. There is no best martial art its the person doing them. Its the experience. Personally i do Tae kwon do and i know that other martial artists could beat mine but but its the person doing the art. But i also know i could beat people with my martial art against theres!

some arts are better then others, for example muay thai is better then aikido. i don't think anyone will disagree? but your right, about how its the person not the art. i dunno, everyone that commented on this topic seems to be on crack or something. lol. whatev. tae kwan do is alright for point sparring, but its not great against a more agressive person who likes to fight in close (clinch fighting). the most effective arts i think is the ones that adapt to change. every art should teach stand up fighting and ground fighting. if it doesn't its not complete, and thats the weakness.

first off, for the record, you have commented on this topic, are you on crack too? lol
it also does depend on which aspect of martial arts your looking at. I think your going from the fighting persepctive, but there are other perspectives to consider, such as control of opponent (which i am led to believe aikido is very good at) movement, forms etc.
Wushu great for forms and movement. Wushu is more of the art in martial art.
where as muay thai is more of the martial in martial art.
Both are martial arts, so you do have to specify in which attribute that every martial art has to as if its better than other styles or not.

ultimately, martial arts is for self defense. i laugh when you imply that some arts have better forms then others. who cares? forms are stupid. i'm just talking about two styles facing off in a fight. you know?

and i think muay thai would be a lot better then aikido for control. what happens when a guy without a shirt fights an aikido man? lol. plus muay thai has the thai clinch wich is very effective.

boxing, has the best footwork out of any art. JKD was based on boxing footwork, and boxing stance.

I know youw ere talking about two different styles fighting, but a lot of people don't consider those things when making a choice of which is a better martial art. Forms are the 'art' part of martial arts. I find forms very beneficial. i get my hands on a difficult form and then i teach my body how to move to that form. i do it enough times and my msucles learn the form, so in the end i will do it without hinking of what comes next. Then in a fight a certain movement in a form may get my out of a situation without me thinking, something like a reflex (un-trained people will wipe with both ahnds in front of their face and learn back, or sheild their face and lean back) this is true about the forms become reflex.
All of the forms i know are practical, of course you would not be able to do the complete form in a fight unless the other person does all the moves that you need to block/counter. But one movement in the whole form, if just one movement is the decider between me on the floor face up with blood all over my face, or the other person in the same position, i'll be happy.

If you train forms and sparing in your martial arts, i can't see how it will be a dissadvantage. one style does forms and sparing, one does sparing. there is going to be aspects in the form that will give you an advantage... i'm rambling a bit, its kinda hard for me to type what i am wanting to say.

and when arts have betetr forms than others, i have to say that Wushu have the best forms. they get your body moving and what not. but they still arn't practical.

Aikido has more ways than fighting, if someone doesn't have a shirt on then they are still going to be able to win. Aikido is a very soft style, but there are some practishioners that are perfect in this style and will overcome most opponents (hence going back to the practishioner, not the style)
Until you learn all there is about Aikido, and then all their is about MMA, i don't see how you can make an accurate assumption as to which is better, for you do not know the other art. thats why i have trouble in saying which art is better than others.

Most of the time, it is the individual, not the style. But, if your looking at the style as a whole, there is going to be styles that are more effective than others. and we have the right to speak our minds about it.

how are we being arrogant? Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is better than aikido. theres no way around that. BJJ is in MMA, so therefore MMA is better than aikido. i'm not messing around with anything, i'm just speaking as i see it.

what would you like us to act like? what should we talk about?

we are all martial artists here, so to say that we don't behave like one is wrong... pls define what a martial artist is suppose to behave like.
I agree that kicking in a martial art is beautiful... well all of it is. but i do love kicking techniques (ahnds down, that video of the monk and TKD fighter, that little kicking outburst, i got that working the other night :D)

Gernerally i would say that MMA is better than aikido, BJJ is better than aikido on the ground, but in stand up i have to say that Aikido would win, but if the BJJ fighter got the person to the ground i would definatly say their screwed. between the two, BJJ rules the ground.

I have met and been trainined by some amazing aikido fighters, they could control the hardest situations, from the bigest people. but from most of the aikido people i have met and faught etc, it isn't the most practical style.

and we do already learn from each other, even if it is not directly. everything that is said on this site broadens peoples perspectives. and give them a better understand on one view or another.

when we train, we train no rules... but if we enter a tournament (just like every other tournament, there are rules...)

it is impossible to know every martial art. and kicking is not useless in a fight. i got into a fight last summer and i kicked the guy in the head and knocked him out.

UFC is almost as real as it gets. yeah theres rules, but anyone can gouge someones eyes. with the rules, you actually need some skill to hurt your opponent.

I don't know man, I really did not have the time to read all of these posts. But from what I did read, all I see is a bunch of "TKD rules" and "Kung fu sucks because they can't fight" type of comments. Are you guys really martial artists? Are you fighters? No one martial art is the answer. A straight right is a straight right be it boxing, taekwon do, or kung fu. Its a punch, enough said. Timing is timing, a kick is a kick. If you cant fight on your feet then you cant fight. If you cant fight on the ground then you cant fight. I've had the crap kicked out of me by Muay Thai instructors, likewise for Jiu Jitsu , taekwon do, and boxing practitioners. I'm sure that somewhere out there there is a kung fu guy that would stomp my guts out, but I'll learn from them all. Use what works for your body type, its that simple. Train hard, don't waste time debating whos rituals are better. If you think you are bad then go to the nearest MMA, or boxing club and find out. There is always someone tougher. Respect one another.

Wow you guys are violent. I practice Aikido and IM pretty sure I could take any of you any day

what level of aikido are you at?
everyone has said that they could take on anyone any day, i have, hands_down has, bruce lee has everyone... but without knowing your opponent what are you going to do?
for all your know i could be a 6'9" 6th degree who can bench 250kg and run the 100m in 10 seconds...
just a tad over my true capabilities :P
Aikido isn't so much as a fighting style than most others... the biggest advantage aikido had over other styles was its footwork, which is why it was hidden with the large trousers (sorry, i forget the name of them) but now days the footwork of aikido are easily accessed and the styles biggest attribute can be known by all.
this doesn't happen so much with kung fu, although a lot of it has been revealed, there are many techniques still hidden... one of the reasons for this is a lot of people don't have the nedurance, or patients for the training...
so aikido up against martial arts which focus on fighting wouldn't stand much of a cahnce.
UFC, huge blokes, if you manage to flip or trip them, they are highly skilled in ground fighting... and constantly evading with re-direction will also be your downfall... Crane has similar problems
as far as i know, aikido fighters would not have the strength to knock out a UFC fighter...

i know i have jumped to the extreme in comparing styles, i.e. pure fighting against aikido...
but unless you can successfully compare, and come out on top with the most extreme situation, then there is always a 'fake' cover up in the style (if your saying it can beat them)

just my opinion

MMA would crush aikido so easily. not only is the stand up better (muay thai) but jiu-jitsu and wrestling would kill aikido in a grappling match.

all these are crap the best martial art is shaolin kung fu and u know it.any one who trains in this are very good fighters.

your an idiot.

ha i like you to.i am putting my opinion across.plus ask five_animals he will agree wiv me

i'm pretty sure he wouldn't agree with you..

jiu-jitsu will almost always beat a kung fu guy if he has no grappling experience, muay thai in my opinion and probably five_animals is a more powerful art then kung fu.

have you ever faught a good thai fighter? probably not, cause you'd get knocked out. muay thai is probably the best stand up art in the world.

i am not bias (well i try not to be)towards my own style, or bias against other styles.
karate and jujitsu arn't crap, and niether is muay thai. every year there is a competition between kung fu fighters from aust and thai fighters fron thialand held in Thailand, muay thai have own like 5 times in a row.
My opinion is that Shaolin is one of, if not the, best martial arts (excluding wushu)
there are five styles known as shaolin:
72 fists, five animals, weaponry, china na/wrestling and then wushu.
72 fists i have to say is one of the best, along with animal styles. chin na i find hard to apply and is difficult to use in a fight, weaponry is un fair unless the other guy has a weapon (but shaolin weaponry is the best in the world when it comes to weapons, no one can disagree) and then theres wushu.

just say a animal fighter... against a jujitsu guy...
if the jujitsu guy gets the kung fu fighter to the ground then he has almost guaranteed victory, but standing up is a different story.

i have faught against muay thai fighters. fighters under one of the best in my state, and they are some of the toughest fights i have had.

my club has developed the style of chinese ground wrestling with elemental applications along with chin na. for a few reasons, mainly coz the shaolin styles didn't have any ground work, and it is becomeing more and mroe popular so we are more at risk, and two the sifu developing it has loved it since he could walk... the shit he knows about this style is amazing, he's even gone to the extent of nose locks, he has all of the military (US) training manuals up to date (all besides the current marine) and he has put some stuff from there into it... without this training jujitsu would kick shaolins arse.

sorry but i here you all blabing on about wich art is the best but its not about that they are all good its what your comfotable with and as for all of this owww but iv done this for 2 hole years screw you iv been doin various arts for 11 years now trying to perfect my own art and im only 18 lol if ther are any real martial artists out ther with more experions pllz get in contact im sick of talking to posers bye

u guys really need 2 chill how can u say that a martial art is balls if you have never done it or tried 2 learn techniques from it also how can u say that u r going 2 kick some1'z ass when u dont even know them they can b built lyk shit brick houses. also i agree with the military guy ur not a true martial artist if you cannot except another martial art whether it iz old or new. also all the faggot rubbish are you tryin 2 suggest somethin aboot your own sexuality by th way if your going 2 threatin me you can come ahead am probably younger than uz bt i am a true martial artist while some of u wannabe'z dont even know th meaning of th word grow up b4 u go an diss somethin u haven't tried u have 2 except a martial art 4 wat it iz

dude, who are you. your commenting an article thats months old. a true martial artist doesnt say hes a true martial artist. he shows it. and from that, i know that your not a true martial artist. martial arts isnt about physical activity. its about wisdom and philosophy. the word kung fu comes from the great phillosipher confusious. and from the way you talk, you dont sound like your a good martial artist. you sound like your a know it all kid.

and it doesnt matter if a guy is built up like a brick house. cuz im pretty sure his nutts arent to big bricks, and i can kick him there if all else fails. and trust me, ive been in some fights with some pretty big guys. ive been in fights with steriod abusers, football players, and even heavy wieght boxers. and if your wondering why ive been in so many fights its becuz my big mouth friends like to talk and say that im better then them and stuff. then i beat up 1 guy and his whole crew is after me. lifes tuff kid, and you learn true martial arts from experience.

Alright TKD is not a very effective style no matter what DAN you are, against someone with descent training in Russian Sambo, Aikido, Grecco Roman or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

And the guy with the red belt, I'm pretty sure I can take you down in 4 moves, using basic Russian Sambo and rip at least 4 ligaments. Or 3 moves in basic Aikido by seperating your shoulder.

I do agree that Aikido will almost be useless if I got on the ground against UFC or Jiu Jitsu. But most likely a higher Dan in Aikido will not be taken on the ground before he can place a lock. If he is on the ground he should know another style to be an effective fighter, I suggest Russian Sambo or Grecco Roman. Even thought Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is an excellent style if you get back up then most likely it wont help you and you are going to have to take down the fighter again, a skilled fighter should be able to avoid two take downs.

Sorry I thought the last post was 7 day ego I thought it was still open, I'm just going throught the site and reading post. And I agree there is no best style, that's why I wrote a combination of style that are most effective for an average person. Of course if it's some Shoalin monk that been dedicated to training all his life would beat the styles I'm doing. But otherwise for an average person if he wants to be well rounded I believe these styles are the best

i don't like your attitude. its one of cockiness, though i agree with most of your comments, i don't like how you try to be better than everyone else. u0344096 has the right to comment on any article he wishes. what does it matter if its old or recent? you said we're not dense, but your acting dense. c'mon, he had some good points, and you shut him down. chill guy, you don't know it all and your not the best fighter. so, be open minded. you have said many things that that have already been mentioned several times.

anways. i thought of a new topic for this site. i'm to tired right now to start it, so if someone else wants to, go ahead. the topic is what you do at martial arts. so lets say.. you just come home from martial arts, then you'd write about what you did during class. understand?

ya, your right. i am being kind of a jerk. i was in a bad mood thats all. usually when ppl are in bad moods they take it out on other things.lol. its stupid ya. but its just like that. i dont care what article he comments, im just informing him that most likely no one will coment back. also, most of the ppl from this article dont even come here anymore. im not trying to be better then every one else if your reffering to the fact that i said im the only one who sais that there is not best style all the time.

and i really dont like it whwn ppl judge. so there. ill say sorry. sorry. im just in a bad mood, wich is the only time i really act like this. im in a bad mood cuz some guy just ran over my dog and drove away. i can only remember 3 letters from his lisence plate. and the cops said thats not enough to find him. i also told them what kind of car and color, but they said that its not enough. they can find him, but there just too damn lazy. then they also gave me a ticket for not having him on a leesh. hes a well trained dog and he was walking by my side. the guys that ran him over were just a bunch of music blasting gangsters trying to run a red light. they almost hit me too, but i got out of the way, unfortunatly my dog didnt. sry and i didnt mean what i said.

The best form of martial arts in the world is called Haganah. Its a kick ass street smart self-defense. Trust me look it up. It can show you how to take away a knife or gun in a street fight. Its definitly the best in the world. It incorporates jiu-jitsu and many other forms of martial arts into one ultimate mix. You can even end a fight without a punch. If you want to be flashy with jumping kicks and dance with swords then kung fu is the martial arts that better suits you.

if you want to be flashy with jumping kicks and dance with swords then join wushu, not kung fu... big difference now days people... pls understand that

I have a few things to say on this topic,
One, a martial art is only as good as its best practitioner, and Ninjutsu, is what I do, is not a sport, or casual martial art, it is a martial art designed for spiritual balance, and killing, it is part of the style that ninjas used, and its best practitioner is Massaki Hatsumi, and he is pretty damn good.

For goodness sakes people there is no martial art that is better than the other. The perfect martial art would be a martial art which incorporates every martial art and leaves nothing out. Balance is the thing that will complete a martial art. For example Tae Kwon Do emphasises speed and power of kicks whereas Kung Fu is more of lightning fast strikes.

i hate it when people sterotype martial arts, especially my own (and i am going to be a little bit hypocritical coz i know i have done it to others) but kung fu is so much more than just lightning fast strikes. Although it has those type of techniques, it is just as focused on power of techniques.
although i believe that my club has a balance of all martial arts, i still won't call it better than others.

My opinion is that some martial arts are better than others. Some styles use better training methods and have less mcdojos ( Bad schools) teaching students.Think about it: If there were no better styles, then why have different styles in the first place?

The most effective training methods involve students training techniques with aliveness( With resisting partners) and involves sparring using atleast most of your techniques and at about full power( None of that tippy tappy taekwondo touch sparring).

Mcdojos are also a factor. If the majority of the schools that teach a certain martial art style suck, then that art can generally be referred to as a crappy martial art. A school can be a mcdojo for a couple of reasons, but generally if the students that go to that school are worse fighters after going than before, it's a mcdojo. Alot of other factors, but that's a simple explanation. And it's pretty common, too.

On another note, I don't think that there is a BEST martial art, just bad ones and goods ones. The best fighting style involves a combination of styles that deal with various ranges of combat( Striking, grappling, etc.) PLUS intense, alive training. After that, it's up to the individual and his own attributes and abilities.

Final Note: A pure Grappler will usually beat a pure Striker in an even situation. This is because a grappler can take a striker out of his range easier than a striker can take a grappler out of his range. This was shown in the early UFC and MMA, when grapplers dominated. Watch Royce Gracie beat up all those karate and kung-fu guys to see what I mean.

It does NOT mean that striking sucks. As MMA grew, strikers learned how to grapple and to defend against the grappling ability of grapplers. Thus, they could get on their feet and use their striking ability. Watch champion kickboxer Maurice Smith use his aquired grappling ability to nullify wrestling's Mark Coleman's attack. Then, Smith got to his feet and beat the shit out of Coleman. It shows that having skills in different martial arts styles is better than having skills in one martial art.

lawofmartialarts was ontrack until he started going wrong. there are no martial arts better then others. there are only martial artists better then others. i mean c'mon, its common sense. if you have one guy that does tea kwon do, and another that does muay tia, that doesnt automaticaly mean that the muay tia guy is gonna win.

we arent machines that will always do as we are programed. its not like we will allways block an attack. there are chances we can miss, and get hit. a muay tia guy can get kicked in the head and fall after he failed a block.

thats how allkinds of crap is made up. thats how ppl make up assumptions that one style is better then another. becuz one guy that does a different style from another got beaten by that style, we will think that the style that won is better. thats not what it means! the statictics are made up, it means that the guy that won is better! not the style! im tired ppl thinking of it the other way around. anyone who does is a straight up retard, such as kingo and others.

Naturally you give the Thai vs. Tae example, but I never mentioned that anyway. Then you called me a retard because I disagreed with you( Naturally...).

If you read my post, you'll note that I said the individual matters, but how they train is also a factor.

For example: Let's take two exact clones of eachother. We train clone # 1 in a martial art that primarily involves training techniques in the air and against a non-resisting opponent. We train the other fellow ( # 2) in a martial art that involves training techniques against an opponent who will resist and fight back. Lets say, for this project, that the arts are both striking arts.

Now...... We have the clones fight eachother( No-rules) 100 times. We give them enough rest between fights to fully recover from the last fight. Who do you think will win most of the time?


I think the full-contact " alive" training guy( #2) would win. It's because he practices techniques against an opponent who fights back, like an opponent would in a fight. The other guy is not used to hitting a moving target and is not used to getting hit.

Now, clone # 1 MIGHT get lucky a few times in the fights, despite his less intense training. But since the the second clone wins most of the fights, why shouldn't I consider his training methods( Which, by the way, are common in the martial art he practices) and martial art BETTER than the other guy?


Now clone # 1 could be training in any traditional stand-up martial art( Taekwondo for example) while Clone number 2 could have been training in any hard contact martial art( AmericanKick boxing or Muay thai, for example). ( I say that because the above training methods are common in said arts).

So, Onite, is your opinion that how a person trains doesn't matter?

I've read most of the posts on here... It amazes me, The whole Tae Kwon Do arguement and how good tae kwon do is. Well let me just sort some of this out...

First off, Tae Kwon Do's Kicks look good, and they probably are good if you can land them, but street fighting is differernt to tournament fighting. I've been in the street and seen people who use Tae Kwon Do get their ass's kicked by people who just use basic boxing skills who havt even done any martial arts before. Red Belt, Black Belt, who cares, its about your skill, I've beaten Tae Kwon Do Black Belts before. I'd like to say, Tae Kwon Do can be effective if you use it in the right way, by fusing it with a less complicated stance and more punches rather the high kicks cause you will lose your balance or someone will grab your leg in a REAL fight.

Second, MUAY THAI IS NOT CRAP. It is one of the most aggresive forms of martial arts today, and yes they could easily do away with someone from Tae Kwon Do or Karate, it just more fluent, muay thai fighters are a lot more fitter as well. Karate or Tae Kwon Do is a martial art more for mental work and so called 'spiritual development'.

Ground Fighting, i.e Judo, BJJ or jujitsu is effective if you can get your opponent onto the floor, especially BJJ, and someone who practises BJJ would know the basic techniqes anyone knows (who hasnt even done martial arts) to get them onto the floor. Judo has some good throws you can use in the street by grabbing onto an opponents clothing.

Down to Hapkido. Well I would say Hapkido is more of a newer' martial art. Where some people said it is 'deadly', hell every martial art is deadly, its just some martial arts 'deadly' techniqes are a lot harder to use, such as Karate's deadly techniqes, you probably wouldnt be able to use them in a real fight. Hapkido incorporates Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and some Judo Or Juijitsu(maybe even more, i dont know) I would classify it, when used with the un-neccessary movements, a good street fighting art.

And Now finally i come to my martial art, Wing Chun. The Wing Chun that i train in is the acclaimed "traditional Wing Chun" and is a lot more effective then the modified verion. It works quick and effective movements and increased reflexes. From any position you can attack and redirect-attacks to the bottom of the ribs, temple, or the bottom of the jaw. Wing Chun does not appear in events such as UFC because it is not meant for Ring Fighting, it uses deadly techniques that target the throat and eyes mostly, and they are fast and effective strikes. My theory is that if someone from wing chun conditioned themselves physically then they would be able to compete in tournaments such as PRIDE and UFC.

I have more in common with you than most Wing-Chun guys.

I've seen Taekwondo techniques fused effectivly with other martial arts styles. There is SOME good taekwondo out there( The good sparring looks similar to Kyoshukin or kickboxing sparring) but not enough to dig it out of the crap hole that it has dug itself into.

We hold similar opinions in regards to Muay Thai and grappling, but our opinions on Hapkido differ. I think Hapkido is in just as much as a slump as Taekwondo. There are good schools out there, but overall I haven't heard highly of it.

I disagree firmly with you on your wing-chun argument. If your techniques are so deadly, then how do you train them effectivly in your school? How many people do you have to kill to perfect a technique?
Besides, there were Wing-Chun fighters in the early UFC, when there were only a few rules( And you couldn't be disqualified for breaking them). They all lost. David Levicki was one of them; he was the biggest fellow in the UFC 2 tournament. He was beaten by a 38 year old karate stylist on the ground.

Anyway, it's not so much Wing-Chun I'm arguing against, it's the " I'm too deadly for the ring" mentality. I'm all for fighters conditioning themselves; maybe one day you could do that and try to prove your style's effectiveness in MMA.

yeah, i agree with you on Hapkido. Wing Chun? To train the more dangerous techniques we dont usually make contact, which i disagree with, but hey you cant go striking someone in the throat during training can you? Contact training is full with mouthguards and the rest of it.

Guy in the early UFC. Maybe he was from the "Modified" Wing Chun, cause i know Traditional Wing Chun is way more effective, even if it was traditional I doubt he would've won anyway, because he probably thought his wing chun by itself was gonna make him invincible, but he probably had a gut or was not conditioned enough. Traditional Wing Chun Mixed with BJJ or some ground fighting and some Muay Thai for more fluent punching would make a good fighting style, in my opinion in a ring fight you will always need to know how to fight on the ground. By the way, Wing Chun is not made for Ring Fights, it just uses quick movements that are effective in the street and you dont have to be fit.

MAYBE(thats a big maybe) I'll fix up Traditional Wing Chun with BJJ or something, condition and make my way to the MMA.

if your so called karate and tae kwon do are so good then why is china incedibly large and powerful while japans an island and korea half of a pennisula?
muay thai is some tough stuff but not the best.
kungfu is the best all around. im not talking competition wushu which is fancy but very hard to control. im talking old school northern style kung fu. the iron palm, my jhong forms. i think that it would help all future fighters to try this. i do admire the skills of all competitors but tit for tat kung fu is where its at.

i agree with what you're saying for a stand up game... but most kung fu styles have no proper ground game. if they come up against a guy who can do some stand up, but can grappling like a mofo, then kung fu isn't going to stand much of a chance... if they can keep on there fee then yes,m but once they go down, all they can do is do as much damage as possible before losing

Martial arts don't work in fights. Only sports work in fights. Martial arts have too many rules. In sports you get to make contact and stuff that you can't do in martial arts.

have you ever heard of swatchow? no? well in my style we learn mongolian style wrestling. its called swatchow. it emphasizes agressive slams and crippling locks. its not for sport. my style is My Jhong Law Horn. we have many ancient books that show northern style kung fu wrestleing. it sounds like people have stereotyped hollywood kung fu as being what kung fu actually is.

Nope. Only sports work. But I'll cut you some slack, because you practice Mongolian wrestling, which is actually just a sport. It's not a martial art.

As for Shinobi: Just because you may have a smoother build for the sport you want to practice doesn't mean you shouldn't crosstrain in another sport to become a better fighter. I'm not trying to insult your intelliegence, provided that you already believe in crosstraining, I just wanted to input that for further discussion.

Oh, by the way, ninjitsu, ninjutsu, and ninjas don't exist. They have no lineage. Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu does exist. However, it doesn't work in a fight because it's a martial art. An Asian martial art at that, with a fancy Asian name. Sports are much better than the Booj.

Do you know what else is a sport? Turkish Oil Wrestling. The great thing about sports is the wide variety we have of them; Oil adds a whole diffferent perspective to the sport wrestling game. However, most martial arts are stagnant and undiverse. Some techniques in martial arts may look different, but they actually produce the same crappy results.

The ninjutsu system nowadays is mostly fighting techniques and in the ancient times it was about 11% fighting (1/9th part) the rest was survival, hiding, swimming, cooking, infiltrating, climbing, etc... The other skills are not trained anymore today. I used to train them when i was a kid. (All of them). But as a modern Ninja, i started training someting else. One of the basics of the Ninja is to adjust to circumstances. Nowadays you have big problems when you walk into a shop all in black with a big sword... A modern Ninja would train his survival skills and train a realistic fighting system based on principles.

Here you see the difference between martial arts, martial sports and martial systems. You always have to consider what the purpose of the art is.

For me it is three things: Survival, Sport and Fun. I am learning the best fighting system and enyoy training with my friends at different levels. I also enyoy the voyage into the history and the simplicity.

And yes, still a ninja, but not like the ancient ones!

My current art is Wing Chun. And my teacher is one of the first students of Yip Man. I am happy he is still alive and in good mental health. I have much fun in teaching Wing Chun in Amsterdam at our schools. For me this is the best system. I tried a lot. We have a nice group and i have some skilled friends also. And of course i train with other styles also. Just "Beimo", test yourself against others.

Ninjas never existed " back then". You were never a " modern ninja". You were a live action roleplayer. You still are a live action roleplayer.

Martial " systems" either don't exist, or it is just an alternate word. Martial arts don't work in fights. Martial sports work in fights. In fact, non-martial sports work better than martial arts in fights. Just look at Bob Sapp.

of course martial arts work in a fight, if you train it to be that way. standing on the spot won't work, but from alive training it can become effective... much better than TKD sport where they fight with no guard!!

one comment on your post y0da, ninjas wearing all black and carrying a katana is a sterotype. they rarely wore black (as most of there attacks were by day, they were disguised as other people, gardeners, servents etc etc) and the reason they didn't have a katana was 1) very hard to be sneaky with one and 2) they assassinated often in enclosed spaces, a katana would be almost usless in a small corridor where it doesn't have the room to move.

and all of the stuff is still being trainined, not just the technical part

TKD is not a sport. " Sport" TKD is just a game; it could alternativly be called high-speed tag. Kata competition is also not a sport; Kata is just a display of a martial art's dance moves. Finally, breaking competition is also not a sport; breaking shit is fun, everyone breaks shit for fun.

Back to my point: Only sports work in fights. You see, I have never changed my opinion about martial arts, I'm just being blunt and using a common MA douchebag phrase( " Boxing is just a sport" etc). The fact ofthe matter is that alive training is just so rare in martial arts that don't have a popular full-contact sport attached to them. There is a curve, however: If you are training alive, then you can probably compete in some form of full-contact sport; thusly, you could say you practice a sport.

In a sport you have rules, like in a game. Rules can be about weight classes, protection, allowed techniques en length of the competition. But also wo can perform a kata or form best.

Art is learning old fighting skills, or perfecting a punch or master very high kicks. Learning forms and training your body.

A system is a way to learn how to defend yourself (or attack). Like Krav Maga or Russian systems like Systema. Wing Chun is also a system based on principles and theories instead of techniques. But Wing Chun can also be seen as an art, and even be used in sport events. But the essentials of Wing Chun is the system how to learn to fight.

I have to agree that olympic TKD is just a game, but the origin was survival and protection of korea. Ninja's did exist and the black clothing is from te movies, like cars always explode in movies too.

Training and understanding the Ninjutsu skills is the way of the Ninja. There was just not a good school in my area. I have been to seminars by Hatsumi and Sveneric when they visited my area. But i got interested in Wing Chun so i stopped the Ninja training with them.

On a more serious note......

To me, competing in a martial sport means that you are testing yourself and your ability ( Legally). I do use the term martial art in real life; I believe that art means skill. It's not about perfecting old fighting skills. And forms suck for developing skill, just to add on.

There's no reason to separate martial system from martial art. The goal of Systema, Wing-Chun, and Krav Maga ( To rephrase that, REAL systema, Wing-Chun, and Krav Maga) is to develop your abilities as a fighter, the goal of which is not different from any other martial art.

All styles have their "principles and theories" ( In good martial arts...... ahem, by good I mean sport martial arts........ We test our theories ASAP). However, you can't base a martial art on "principles and theories" without techniques to utilize. So, you know, whateva.


On a final note, Hatsumi doesn't take his organization seriously.

I have been a practitioner of martial arts for 13 years this has included ITF and WTF tae kwon do and Muay Thai. Honestly a lot of the people voicing their opinions about martial arts havent even trained in it or are beginners and have no basis for their opinions. I have seen my fair share of fights and believe me i used both arts and neither of them top the other. I consider myself well versed in both and both martial arts have there strengths and weaknesses. people who cant see this are blind and have had little or no experience in martial arts.

Apparently, the God of martial arts has come on to this board. Whoever doesn't agee with his vaguely stated opinion apparently has never trained in martial arts, even though I know some people who have trained longer then him and still ( Probably) disagree with him.
We should all stop voicing our opinions because we no longer have the right too.

Now that that's outta the way, lawofmartialfarts, how hard do you want us to blow?

hey man im not saying im the formeost opinion but seriously if u wanna compare martial arts then do it. My opinions come from facts not speculation unlike many of the people here. I also know many people who have trained longer and are better than me, but im no slouch either. People like you dont sound knowlegdeable of the arts. You guys are embarrasments

You certainly have presented a goldmine of " facts" that will sway the opinions of the unworthy jealous people who have condemned themselves by disagreeing with you.

Ok, laughing boy, throw some facts at us. We'll have a meaningful discussion.

1. How do you think the levels of aliveness in the training methods of Taekwondo and Muay Thai differ?

2. How important do you believe grappling is in a real fight? Also, how do you feel about the popularity that grappling and crosstraining have experienced in the past decade or so?

3. What is your opinion about the legality of using eye gouges in minor street brawls or self-defense situations?

4. Surefire flashlights: Eye-ball exploding effectivness, or RBSD bullshit?

5. Who Watches The Watchmen?

I think grappling should be incorporated in every martial art because 90% of fights end up on the ground. THAT does go without saying that ucan count on that most of those fights arent between an average joe and a martial artist. if an experienced martial artist lands a well placed kick on his opponent the guy is done in most situations. As far as eye gouging goes there no fight rulebook that states what u cant do in fight. A fight is no holds barred anything goes its whatever is the mosteffective way of incapacitating a combatant.


Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai training methods do differ as far as sparring and techniques go. Not that much is different when it comes to methods of of conditioning not much is different because of the fact that you need breath training for both. Muay Thai is a martial art heavily based on the usage of joints and shins. When one strikes with these body parts the blunt force is enought to send someone flying backwards and to cause serious outside pain, including cracked or broken bones.

Tae Kwon Do on the other had uses the heel, the ball of the foot and the instep to strike. These strikes are effective because it channels all the force of the blow into a small area. These strikes can cause snapped bones and internal bruising and bleeding. Both muay thai and tae kwon do strikes are effective in different situations. Muay Thai doesnt snap their kicks which causes the power of one of their strikes to be more blunt than sharp. this is more effetive when someone is in close and trying to take you down. Thats where one would use knees and elbows. tae Kwon Do on ther hand can keep someone at distance. A jump back kick or spin kick is vey effective at stopping an assailant dead in his tracks with crushing force to the sternum, groin, head, knees, and shoulders. The effect of one of these kicks can be devastating. A knee to the face while in close will have the same effect to. All in all im just sayin that training in both will well verse you in both forms of combat

Our opinions are pretty much the same on grappling. Grappling is important. However, I don't think that 90 % statistic is accurate; however, it does make itself obvious that fights between two people can go to the ground fairly easily, even two standup martial artists.
"if an experienced martial artist lands a well placed kick on his opponent the guy is done in most situations."

I think most people can endure a single hit to the body.

As for the eye gouge, I disagree. Note that I said MINOR street brawl. If you actually manage to use an effective eye gouge in a street fight, are you gonna go up and tell the police who came to the scene : " I know I partially blinded my opponent, but in a street fight there are no rules."

As for my opinions on Muay Thai and Taekwondo: From my observations, the mcdojo ( Bad school, poor instructor) concentration is higher in Taekwondo than it is in Muay Thai. Thusly, you will find more Muay Thai people who, you know, actually can fight.

Alot of Taekwondo schools primarily do light-contact point sparring ( Or no sparring at all). This, in my mind, is a disadvantage when compared to thai boxers and kickboxers who spar full or near full contact.
From what I've heard, the ability of Taekwondo stylists who do train with aliveness ranges from Kyokushin to kickboxing, and that's not surprising with the techniques they practice( < Positive comment).

My only comment about the techniques is that I think a good Taekwondo practionar would work alot on his punching skills as well as kicking.
Also, the kicking techniques of Taekwondo use the foot, which breaks easier than the shin.


Final Thought:

"When one strikes with these body parts the blunt force is enought to send someone FLYING BACKWARDS and to cause serious outside pain, including cracked or broken bones."

Flying Backwards? Pick an answer:
1. You exaggerated?
2. Bullshit?
3. The Incredible Hulk practices Muay Thai?

When bruce lee did the one inch punch, did it not send someone flying backwards?
go to youtube or some other video site and watch a punch of school fightgs and street fights, i have to agree that most end up on the ground, and i also have to agree that 70% of statistics are made up on the spot.

In my experience in fighting TKD people, it is hard to find someone who is good at what they're doing, they don't produce a lot of fighters, but when they do produce a fighter, they're good. so TKD have both extremes, but not so much in the middle (my opinion) the thing i find about TKD is that they don't train their guard properly. most times in a comp they will be around their belt.

He did the one-incher in demos, against people who only God knows had any skills. Besides, wheren't they just knocked backed? Those fake Kuk Sool Won throwback photo kicks are what I pictured in my mind.

kingofruas man i just want to ask you a simple question what martial arts have u had experience in. as for your mcdojo theory you have no basis for this fact unless you have sampled literally hundreds of tae kwon do dojangs. i totally agree with five_animals because if bruce lee could knock someone back with a one inch punch just think about how much more devasting a kick would be. my facts are based on my experiences so personally i dont give a fuck who disagrees with them

nicely said.
but i have to agree, the one inch punch (the way bruce does) is not how its done, but with it he generated enough power to send the guy stumbling backwards... a kick done correctly would do so muich more

5 years of Tang Soo Do, a few monthes of kung-fu, 2 seasons of wrestling, and about a year of mixed submission grappling, mixed martial arts, and boxing.

Besides my own experiences, there's an entire website with members all over the world from thousands of different schools who sometimes meet personally, and they are dedicated to stopping the mcdojo problem:

www.bullshido.net

As for your own experiences, if you like TKD, then good for you.

"i dont give a fuck who disagrees with them"

That's not gonna stop me from giving my opinion. You shouldn't try so hard if you want to pretend that you don't care what people think of you; it just gives it away.

man u have no way of knowing whether or not i care about what people think about my opinions. U dont know me man and ur full of assumptions that u cant back with facts. Plus whats with ur obsession with quoting me.

Still not stopping me.

And what the fuck do you care if I quote you? I quoted you about 3 times; that's as many times and for the same purpose as you began a post with " kingofruas man" or " THis is for u kingofruas".

im not tryin to stop ya its ur damn opinion. i could care less ur entitled to ur opinions but honestly a lot of the stuff u say doesnt make sound knowledgeable of martial arts. Yea u may have some experience but way to little to say some of the things that u say. Id also love to see u take a one inch punch from Bruce Lee if he was alive

You are eons more credible than me. What, with your bad grammar and arrogance; you got the ball rolling real good when you came on here and called us all embarrassments.

The only I think I slipped up on was the kick fly back thing. You CAN go flying back from a kick. But, on your part, you shouldn't have mentioned it( How often do you see people go flying in a kickboxing match?). You could have also acknowledged that you did exaggerate your initial point, but you didn't.

You know what you could have also done? You could have continued the conversation on TKD, grappling, and Muay Thai. Instead you decided to ask me what kind of experience I have( 8 years total, btw), to make it seem like your opinion is more qualified then mine. You also took my troll bait, and started to focus your posts on how you don't care what people think of you and how I suck.

You didn't present us with any facts, just unverified anecdotes and your own opinions. You should realize that some people have had different experiences with martial arts, which is why they have different opinions. How many Taekwondo schools did YOU go to to reach your opinion about Taekwondo?
By the way, the fact that you don't care about other people's opinions shows that you are closed-minded. That's not good for discussion.

I suggest you go into Bullshido and start to mingle around a bit; you'll probably learn something.

Final Thought: If Bruce Lee asked me to be the recipient of da deadleee one-incher, I'd take the offer. However, I'd only accept IF it was demonstrated in a live sparring situation, me trying beat him, him try to beat me. Anybody can punch a guy who's standing there nonchalantly; the punch only means something if he could use it in an actual fight.

And what facts have u provided us with? Actually I have been to 3 differen tae kwon do schools because ive moved all over the country. I also never said you sucked I was just honestly wondering what your opinions were based on. I also didnt call all of you embarrasments, because five_animals actually seems to want to discuss martial arts instead of accusing other martial artists of being arrogant. Also I have seen many people go flying backwards as result of a well placed kick. By flying I mean the actually were lifted of their feet and sent backwards. Plus your the one who made the comment about me exaggerating my facts of MY martial arts experience.

Also man I really dont think you would fight Bruce Lee if he were living.

first things first.
kingofraus... weren't you question people like this a while ago, stuff with onite and shit... and now you're blaming someone for doing it to you?! a wee bit hypoctritical...
awesome, i'm not an embarrasment!

i'd fight bruce lee if he still lived, one because he is not as good as his fame as bought him (even though he was still a great martial artist) and two it would be an honor to fight someone as knowledgeable in martial arts. I can learn a lot

I never said I would present anyone with facts; you were the one called what you presented facts. And I never intended to make it seem like I don't believe you practice the arts you do.


"kingofraus... weren't you question people like this a while ago, stuff with onite and shit... and now you're blaming someone for doing it to you?! a wee bit hypoctritical..."

How so?


Anyway, I don't know where we're going with this bitchfitedness. Except that I would fight Bruce Lee, like I probably would spar with any well known martial artist if I had the opportunity at a seminar. Why not?

Anyway, what do you like best about Taekwondo?

MMA is good for ring fighting.
MMA will suck in a real street fight.
Kungfu sucks in the ring. (too many rules)
Kungfu works out of the ring.
Kungfu digs out eyes, rips stomach out, pulls penis, rips out throats.. and many other deadly moves not allowed in MMA. Kung fu uses chi and forces unknown to help them fight. MMA uses physical strength, drugs, and what not to win...

The fighting martial art (physically).. is to win.. some people put rules and honor at stake.. but a real fight is when your life is at stake. When you have to kill or be kill. Since no one here.. I hope has ever killed somebody .. I don't think all of you can really attest to being a fighting killing machine.. a true martial artist.. the word itself implies death and destruction.

martial art = the art of war = death and destruction

We all practice martial art, but the times do not allow us to truly use them in martial combat (for most people.. I'm sure there are many soldiers who have killed in arm to arm combat..). Thus we will not know how effectively the art truly is or how to truly use it.

So all of you may argue and talk idiotically in your stupor.. but until you practice and use it on a bunch of people who also knows martial art and kill and win and live to tell about this.. you will then truly be a martial artist.

Nowadays, the martial arts are studied and use for health and defense reasons. So everybody stay safe and healthy.

So we have to murder another martial artist to be a true martial artist?

And what's with this kung-fu vs. MMA bullshit? In the early days of MMA, the rules were lose enough so that you could eye gouge and kick groins. And you know what? You arrogant, delusional traditional martial artists who thought you could defeat any man by fighting dirty..... STILL LOST. And you know what else? When given the chance, grapplers and other fighters who did arts that are now associated with MMA.....FOUGHT DIRTY. Just watch the famous grappler, Royce Gracie, kick groins and pull hair. He wasn't no kung-fu guy.


Do you "dig out eyes, rips stomach out, pull penis, rip out throats" in your daily kung-fu training? I mean, do you really do it? Or does your trainer just tell you that's how you defeat an MMA person? Or do you just do no-contact drills to train them?

You see, MMA guys are good fighters because they actually punch people in training. They actually spar live to perfect their moves. They also fight people from other training camps to test their skills. It's called competition. It translates into a real fight in that you get used to the pressure of adrenaline and you feel more comfortable getting hit. That way you won't panic a good deal if you get punched in a real fight.

And finally:

"Kung fu uses chi and forces unknown to help them fight."

MMA doesn't waste time with magic. They use technique, strength, leverage, and tactics to win fights.

Those who esteem chi lack strength.

i agree with kingofraus. I am a traditional martial artist. this bullshit about us using penis grabs and stomach rips to win a fight is absolute bullshit!
there are guys that have been able to rip out stomachs or rip cages, shut down internal organs etc etc etc... they take years upon years upon years od dedicated training to master... not ever kung fu person you see has the ability to rip out a stomach, the vast majority will jar their fingers just trying!

You train traditional martial arts?! the most traditional you can get, Shaolin, was never designed for fighting and killing (there are teh exceptions) but for self defence. they were peacful people, not physico's who pull other peoples penis's.

and now days hardly any martial art styles are used in war combat. have a look at their training maunals... its the most basic shit. now days they have guns, and if they ever get to hand to hand they shit them selves and piss themselves coz its fucken scarey!

with todays laws UFC is probably the most alive, legal, way to test each others skills, or organise fights between clubs, full contact, none of this point shit.

for you to say kung fu is digging out eyes and penis grabbing and shit is giving it a bad name! if you were a traditional martial artist you woulnd't say that because you know more about the styes.

there are 3 main reasons why i think kung fu doesn't do well in the UFC world.
1. There are 100's more techniques to learn and master and train alive. So it takes longer to get good. MMA, Muay thai, boxers have a much narrower range of techniques, so they can learn them very fast and become good really quick.
2. 90% of kung fu schools don't train alive, or full contact, if they do, its not early enough. they like to leave it for black sash's. I admit, my club won't do full contact (without body gears and head gear) until they are black sash... evreything before has its limits.
3. kung fu is not jsut about fighting. its about health, fittness, fun, peace, enlightenment etc etc... so its notnits only focus...



and about all the chi stuff... most of the stuff you'll see is bullshit. But some of it is real. And science can't explain it. science acknowledges chi now days, but it still can't explain it.

there are some stooges out there youy believe they can knock people out without touching them using chi... its bullshit, it is not goku's kah-maya-maya.
but physical attacks with chi IS REAL! finding enlightenment is real keeping your body temperature normal in -10C is real, and the list goes on.
but it also is not a magical super power to knock people out from 40 feet away.

the other disadvantage to most karate, aikido and kung fu schools is they only train within their own club... so they get use to the same people over and over again. Boxers, muay thai, mma are focused on competitions so they come across heaps of different body types, and for that, they are the better fighters, as a generalisation

"1. There are 100's more techniques to learn and master and train alive. So it takes longer to get good. MMA, Muay thai, boxers have a much narrower range of techniques, so they can learn them very fast and become good really quick."


That's true. However, you also have to acknowledge that sport fighters don't stop getting better at a certain point. There's always new techniques, or new variations of techniques, and new strategies.

but even still... those new stratagies that sportsmen apply to their game can also be applied to the kung fu game

tae-kwo-ndo, karate, muay-thai, jiu-jitsu, judo, kung-fu etc. they are all good martial arts but still it depends on the person using it! I'm not against any form of martial arts here but let's get practical. .

have you ever tried engaging in rumbles? fistfights? streetfights? whatever! frankly speaking i've been in a lot of those " unusual experiences" and using kicks, punches, elbow strikes, knee strikes, are usually used and are considered to be very effective! not to brag about it. . specially when you're outnumbered. .

my best-bud is a judo practitioner while study kyokushin we have reached a certain degree which i won't tell in order to avoid being "boastful". we to spar during our spare time. . and i always got my @ss whopped! but there was this one time when we stumbled into a streetfight. . some punks who tried to mug us. . we were outnumbered they were 6 and just the two of us. . we decided to split them with a ratio of 3:1 lucky for us none of them had any knives, guns, etc. so basically it was a hand-to-hand combat! i used my knowledge and experience. . i got few nasty cuts on my face and my fists are swollen. . my leg also had some few bruises. . my friend almost died because he was punched so hard in his eye which made him fall flat down on the ground. . but before that happened i saw him threw two guys all at once i was amazed and stunned that's the reason i had some cuts on my face. .those two were knocked unconscious thanks to his awesome throw! but still one guy managed to hit him hard directly in his eye which gave the way for him to kick the hell out of my best-buddy! watching him kick, punch and spit on my buddy made me immune to all the hits i received from the remaining three but luckily i managed to knock them out! it took me almost 7 minutes because they were f*cking tough! as soon as the last guy dropped i kicked the last guy at his head knocking him out and i quickly ran to the nearest hospital carrying my buddy. .

thinking of that event made me realize that using judo and arts similar to it are only effective during one on one fights! probably much more with wrestling and jiu-jitsu and all arts which uses grappling. . but! they were really effective and would really consume lesser time. . striking on the other hand can also consume time as long as you can hit the target immediately and effectively. .

so. . my conclusion is it's best to have enough knowledge on arts and being able to use them effectively in the right time! osu!!!

That is pretty long for a fight. Indeed it doesn't matter wich art you perform. It is more the state of mind you have. If you know the basics of any martial art you can defend yourself better and see the situation coming.

there is no best.
knowing the basics of all types of martial arts and having good skills (coordiation, reaction time etc) helps.
diff scenario, diff arts. e.g. if u learn muay thai, and the opponent gets u to the ground, u have little experience in these type of situations as they do not specialise in that area.

Hi im new to this post thing or whatevr. I was just wondering if i sould take up hapkido or TKD. I want something that will be effective but not to overpowering (as in time consuming because im am in school now). I have a good friend that is like a second dan blackbelt in TKD and he wants me to do it. I just wana know what your oppinion is...Thx

they're pretty much the same style really. except hapkido has more locking stuff, defense stuff and they use their hands more. they also train ground fighting, although they don't really teach what to do on the ground, they mroe get you use to being there which is good since thats not what hapkido is known for.
my cousin has his black belt in hapkido and he is a good challange in a fight
also, when ever i fight hapkido people they have a guard! when ever i fight TKD people their hands are down at their belts and they're hopping around like they're doing a western dance. i am for hapkido

also it has been less bastardised than tkd since its not as popular

Thanks. You have been really helpful. I am still not sure though because the place that I would go to definatly does sparring for TKD and I think sparring is sweet but im not sure if they do it for hapkido students. Thanks though I will definatly use your advice.

go to both schools and ask them about the sparring.
also ask them what they think of the other style. i'd go for whoever shows more respect to the other style.
just ask a few questions and talk to the teachers there, who ever you feel most comfortable with is also probably the better option

Actually it is one school and they are all very respectful there. So I would be at the same place no matter what style I take. I would also be around the same teachers because a lot of TaeKwonDo-ists practice Hapkido also.

if it the same teacher(s) then go do a months worth of TKD and a months worth of Hapkido.
then, think to yourself which you liked better, and then ask the teacher who tought you most from both styles which he thinks you are better suited to.

or you could do the simple option... learn both, although its not the most reccommended way of learning martial arts that are so similar

Hi I’m 15, English and that’s about it… bin doing taekwondo for about 3-4 months not even yellow belt – none of that means shit however, the fact I stated that I mention my taekwondo was merely because it seems conventional thing to do in this forum – I would have preferred to say something like “I’ve had my own unique fighting mindset for about my whole conscious life. Neway I want to begin with a rhetorical question: Why are there many martial arts rather than just a martial art. Because, surely if there was a universally optimum style - ie the ultimate way of fighting there would only be one martial art for we as humans to learn. Otherwise what would be the point in learning a martial art which we know simply couldn’t beat any other style… well there simply wouldn’t a point. So this is where my theory comes in: It is not the martial art which makes the fighter powerful (or the art particularly good) it is the fighter who makes the martial art make him a good a fighter (the art can be good depending on how it is used by the fighter). Ie a style is only good depending on the person using it. Ie Capoeira for example if using a beat and all the rest which goes into the style doesn’t “feel right” for the person doing Capoeira, then the style in that particular case won’t be effective. However if the characteristics of and algorithms within a style are in fact suitable for the person then the style all of a sudden becomes effective. There are some people where a style will be natural for them, and then there are some people who can adopt a style despite it’s unnaturalness to them -… then there are some who wont be able to do either. It’s in knowing this that I am fuckpissd off to see so many people on this board ignorantly arguing dogmatically with ridiculous arrogant conviction in their persuading of others as to why a particular martial art is bad or good. My idea is essentially that; every style of fighting is good, flawless in fact - it is merely to do with how it treated by the person using it. This is why it takes a natural-born fighter to begin with to effectively adopt and adapt the martial art as his way of fighting. Laterally thinking you will realise a martial art actually has the capacity to weaken a fighter if it is not the right style for him and if he cannot adapt to it (adapt it to his way of fighting). However it is without a doubt that if a fighter can adopt a martial art and then adapt it to his “game” (way of fighting), then most martial arts are a enormous increase in power for a fighter. Please gime some feedback about your interpretation of what I said, and then also what you think of theory of the fighter being the art.

personally i think that you answered your original question by yourself. really your question is almost like why isn't there a universal religion, or why can't everyone have the same way of thinking. really the reason there is no universal martial art is because there is always going to be a set of people who will always want an edge over their opponnet, and if everyone knows the same thing' they are going to develope somthing else. somthing possibly better than the original one. do you see the pattern? as you have said before each martial art suits a different person. I think this is true. back to what i said about unversal religion. what do you think is better everybody having a different beleif and way of thinking that suits them, or everybody beleiving the same thing and possobly being uncomfortable with their ideas and not having the freedom their own ideas. the answer is obvious. now i beleive that saying that another martial arts is worse than another is not only stupid and pointless, but can lead to you underestimating your opponnet and that could make it a unseen weakness. so you might as well appreciate your opponnets martial art and avoid that from happening to you.

peace.

Hey, i currently practice wing chun which has proven to be very effective for me fighting ablility. I was wondering what art you guys think would further mine or anyones skills in street fighting, not tournament (i.e karate, tae kwon do, Hapkido) I was thinking something like Boxing, Muay Thai. Which one has better punching? muay thai uses elbows, is this an advantage? nd also Ju Jit Su, anyone know any GOOD, non Mc-Dojo Jujitsu??

Chuck Liddel wins his fights using a combination of unorthodox looping punches and WRESTLING takedown defenses.

Anyways, as someone who actually watches and understands early UFC bouts, I can tell you that there were expert strikers as well as grapplers in the events. For example, grapplers Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock fought LHW boxing champion Art Jimmerson and pro-kickboxer Pat Smith respectivly in the very first event.

And who could forget Tank Abbot? When I think STREETFIGHTER, I think about ol' Tank. He had boxing ability. He had wrestling ability. He had gotten into alot of streetfights in the past. But when paired up against grapplers Oleg Taktarov and Dan Severn, he lost.


In short, the reason you here alot about grapplers in the early UFCs is not because they were the only ones there; nothing could be further from the truth. The reason you hear about them is because they were WINNING, not just among eachother, but against strikers, too.

Later on down the road, world champion kickboxer Maurice Smith fought and beat wrestler Mark Coleman for the UFC title. He had to train with expert grappler, Frank Shamrock, to be able handle Coleman when the fight went to the ground. The fact that a world class striker had to learn some grappling to beat a wrestler must tell you something, right?

I think boxing or a style that involves the ground game also such as jijitsu or judo, as most fights go to the ground now anyway you get them down and then own the crap out of them

a good striker will not allow a wrestler to get within effective range for a take down. its an either or. a good striker should know how to sprawl, and how to get back to his feet, and good wrestler should know how to do basic strikes and be able to cover

The thing is, if he's close enough to strike he's close enough to be taken down. The best way to go about things is to be proficient all areas of combat. A striker needs more than basic training in wrestling and ground grappling to be effective, and grappler needs more than basic training in striking to be effective. With only noob training in a certain area, you'll be exactly that when it comes time to use those skills: A noob.

think ufc, most of the time you see somebody throw a punch, and then the wrestler judoka what ever, they find a path and then take them to the ground. Its doesnt look all that good but is very effective!!!

a striker needs to know AT LEAST the basics, so if they are taken to the ground, they can get back to their feet where they can fight, they don't need to know the basics so they can fight on the ground. and visa versa for the grapplers.

but a good striker should be able to keep a grappler from taking them down. they can still keep a distance between them with strikers and correct movement

a agree, i believe that all fighters, and true martial artists should be at least 80% competent in striking, clinch, and ground.
i posted something about that last week.

It depends what your goals are. If you dedicate yourself to a striking art but want to be prepared for a self-defense situation, than a basic knowledge of grappling may suffice.

However, if you plan to fight a professional fighter, than you're going to need be a skillfull grappler to be able to handle yourself. A basic understanding of how to extricate yourself and stand back up is no match for an advanced understanding on how to hold you down and pound you out.

As for keeping grapplers at bay with strikes and correct movement ( Correct movement won't mean much if you don't know how to grapple, by the way), grappling training will really help a striker when he realizes he can't play his usual game of striking ( Like if he faces a better striker).

when i say for a striker to have basic knowledge of the ground, i don't mean for him to have that basic knowledge at a basic practicality level. but, as a bare minimum, a striker should learn to defend against the high percentage submissions, and learn to get back to their feet from any position that they're in from the ground. but as strikers, they don't need to know a full submission game. they need to know to to get back to their way of fighting.

correct movement will mean heaps even if you don't know how to grapple. in terms of footwork, there is not a lot of difference between someone advancing with a punch, or someone advancing for a double leg take down. the end result will be different, whether they need to step off the line, sprawl etc etc...

but with proper strikes and proper footwork a striker can defend against a grappler without knowing the sprawl. but its easier said than done, it needs a lot of training... so its better off to also learn the sprawl

when it comes to grappling vs. striking there is no better or worse. they're both needed since they work differently. grappling is ground fighting, striking is when you're on your feet... they're both there for different situations.

my main point is that every martial artist, whether they be a striker, or a grappler, should know, not only their full game, but the basics of the others (strike, grapple, clinch)

i am sick and tired of hearing karate guys boast that if they fight a grappler they will just kick him in the nuts... go to youtube and type in bjj vs karate, bjj vs tkd, bjj vs kung fu etc etc etc...

you'll see the gracie brothers own these other styles, since they don't know what to do once they're flat on their back besides grab for balls

I don't think your bare minimum idea would be particularly useful. I've seen plenty of strikers in the early UFC's who knew what a guard was but didn't know what to do from there. And even advanced guys know that not turning your back to your opponent is the basic RNC defense, but they still get caught there.

Learning how to escape from any sort of position will take a person time to become skillfull at ( Which contrasts with your bare minimum idea). I say that you might as well practice the full-ground if you're going to do that; learning how to fight on the ground is just as important as learning how to escape holds.

There is actually a world of difference between advancing with a punch and advancing with a shoot. One difference is that a striker's footwork and stance is designed for throwing and avoiding strikes, rather than defending a takedown. Just listen to any boxing critic bash the UFC; they'll say that UFC fighters have poor footwork. What they're ignorant of is that an MMA fighter needs a wider stance than a boxer because they need to defend takedowns as well as strike. A boxing stance is too narrow for that purpose.

when i say a bare minimum, i don't mean a bare minimum of knowledge or skill, i mean variety.
i reckon all strikers should know guard, should know how to get out of guard in order to get back to their feet. they should train it and perfect it. guard being jsut one example.

i agree that all martial artists should learn the ground game, i am not saying that at all. but what i am saying is if they are only in it for striking, or their style is only a striking art, then they should know how to:
1)defense from a take down
2)how to get back to their feet from any position on the ground in case step one doesn't work, or they somehow end up there.


a boxers stance is designed for boxers, you will see that people in UFC and MMA still use their wide stance, even if they are up against a pure striker. it is good as a defense from a take down, but it does limit your movement, and how you move.
a boxers/more upright stance has more movement and agility than a wide stance. so i believe that with this added skill (in defense against a grappler) they should be able to use their movement and stirking skills to not be taken down

but as i said, its easier said than done, which is why they should learn to always get back to their feet. ideally they should learn the entire game... but i'm pretty sure you will have a hard time convincing a karate school to do so

when i say a bare minimum, i don't mean a bare minimum of knowledge or skill, i mean variety.
i reckon all strikers should know guard, should know how to get out of guard in order to get back to their feet. they should train it and perfect it. guard being jsut one example.

i agree that all martial artists should learn the ground game, i am not saying that at all. but what i am saying is if they are only in it for striking, or their style is only a striking art, then they should know how to:
1)defense from a take down
2)how to get back to their feet from any position on the ground in case step one doesn't work, or they somehow end up there.


a boxers stance is designed for boxers, you will see that people in UFC and MMA still use their wide stance, even if they are up against a pure striker. it is good as a defense from a take down, but it does limit your movement, and how you move.
a boxers/more upright stance has more movement and agility than a wide stance. so i believe that with this added skill (in defense against a grappler) they should be able to use their movement and stirking skills to not be taken down

but as i said, its easier said than done, which is why they should learn to always get back to their feet. ideally they should learn the entire game... but i'm pretty sure you will have a hard time convincing a karate school to do so.

mate, you and i are simply agreeing on the same thing, anyone else reading this would also see so... so stop just trying to make a fight out of it

Your idea about the boxer is nice in theory, but in reality it just doesn't happen. Of course, you put in that easier said than done excuse, but I'll disregard that as a red herring.

Unless it's an expert striker going up against a noob MMAer, the striker won't be able to just go in and out of range and pepper him until he's knocked out. As soon as you're in range for strikes, you're in range for a takedown. And with the narrow stance, you're in less of a position to sprawl or put up some other sort of defense.

"mate, you and i are simply agreeing on the same thing, anyone else reading this would also see so... so stop just trying to make a fight out of it"

It seems to me that there are opposing viewpoints; obviously, why would you respond if there weren't?

Another thing that just doesn't work out in real life is the idea that a striker could simply learn how to stand up and he'll be ok. Just doesn't work out. Look at Harold Howard from the UFC; he was a karate guy who had Japanese Jiu-Jitsu experience, and used that experience to try to create his own system of " anti-grappling". The idea was that he would use his Jiu-Jitsu to prevent him from going to the ground and to escape the ground if he did.

It didn't work out for him; in his UFC career, he was beaten on the ground by two fighters who were not top caliber grapplers.

I say, if you have the time to train and perfect ground escapes, you should also learn takedowns and submissions, too. If you're a striker who trains, let's say, BJJ once a week for self-defense purposes, you might as well get he full benefit of the art. If anything, the submissions will help you if you can't escape, and the takedowns will help you if you can't outstrike your opponent. Part of the reason why Harold Howard lost to Steve Jennum was because he didn't have the experience to lock on a proper guillotine choke.


I'd also like to point out that if a striker was to go to a separate martial arts school to train grappling, he'd probably be made to train the full syllabus anyway.

how many times have i said they should learn everything... why do i have to keep repeating myself?!

i said as a bare minimum they should learn to stop being taken down, and to know how to escape from a position and get back to their feet. if the striker has proper positional game then it'd be hard for the grappler to get in a clean submission.

i 100% believe that a striker should learn submissions, should learn controlling positions, should learn as much as they can about ground fighting.
but not all strikers will do this. but all strikers should know how to stay in their dominant fighting style, and how to get back to it in case they get taken down

why can't you get it through your head?! its not that hard...

karate rules you guys suck, lucy liu will kick your ass!!!!

yeah...srry not sure wat everone said up in here because i read down to i think like 6 comments or so but it was really funny cause i doubt that anyone of those people actually know anything about fighting martial or anything like that....for the fact or all the nonsence there talking....aight yeah kung fu isnt practiacall for todays streetfighting but that only when it comes to people who train in america or other foreign countries....i bet if any of you go to a actuall temple and pick a fight with anyone of them ull get completly destryed...but i will say its more flashy than most...but still affective...now that tae-kwon-dow yeah that art...to me personally sucks...and yes i have experience in alot of martial arts but out of all of them the one that i believe is completely pointless is tae-kwon-dow....now jeet-kun-do is a great style but i might have a biased opinion on that one cause bruce lee fromed it so im going to skip that one...mauy thai (i think thats how u spell it) is an extremly perficient art...great in all aspects but only to those who actually train and are serious....brizillian ju-jitsu is great for grappeling but if u cant get a grab on ur screwed...basiclly....so wat i have to say is the best art isnt just one....if your going to chatergorize (spell check lol) they all have pros and cons...cause some people arnt made or just cant perform certain arts as good as other...mainly for their body and mind type...so if u can find multiply arts or creat ur own form...specif for you...that would be the best....but like i said the best changes form person to person....and no im not shutting other peoples comment down...just trying to shin the light out for some people who might read these to try and find out a art or style to learn...

Bruce Lee knew grappling.

As a matter of fact as he developed JKD he progressively threw more and more of the Wing Chun system out of the window in favor of kick boxing and grappling.

jesus, this had been running for enarly 3 years now. anyway, there is no martial art which is the 'best', they all have their own disavantages and advantages, and ultimately it depends on the person, not the art they are studying.
but in my opinion the best rounded art is jeet kune do, it was made by easily the best martial artist that ever lived, but again, not everyone who learns it is gonna be an unstoppable superman.

jeet kune do is the most well rounded. Really when comes down to it you have to do rely on your speed, timing and accuracy wetyher your on the ground or on your feet. Adding to that the carpenter with the most tools in his belt and knows how to use them is the best one.

Understand the most unique fighting style these days is and well probably always be Kyusho-jitsu! It's martial art would most definitely clobber what others believe to be the best and most brutal art out there!....For instance my sensei also passes great learning of the DIM MAK!!! You guys are way overwhelmed in what could do what but in the end it all falls down to the last man standing....It's what you fight for and what you believe that makes a difference in every fight, I like to watch fights that include Defendo.....Very neat art....Although it is new, it's rare and as well very lethal! I learned hand to hand combat while serving my Country and to think we trained the Americans in it! Come on in my door and See how quick you can dodge a 2500 fps blow right between the eyes....Anyway guys it was nice to read everyones comments but I'll stick to what I know and try to someday pass it on to others as my sensei did to me!
Thanks again,

Cpt. ChiefZ

there have been stories where mothers have flipped cars to get to their babies underneath, stories where people have done amazing things such as the monk who wet himself on fire and did not flinch, did not cry out in pain, did not move. or the monk who was so calm that he had control over his autonomic responses such as pupil dilation.

but someone jumping off a 5 story cliff and landing it being able to sprint immediately is unfortunately something that the human body cannot do, no matter how much training or meditation.

what i would like to know is how he got hallucinated in the first place, and why no one else, teachers or other students went to go and get him.

its stretching the truth a bit far i believe.

as for your friend and the tree, i don't know how strong a banana tree trunk is, but something like that takes years upon years of conditioning and training in order to do that, so its not really unheard of.

Five_animals, from your Comments it seem like you are an experienced martial artist. from your last comment, I want to ask you some Questions:
1.do you know anything about this Pencak Silat?
2. can a striker martial artist knocked down a grappler by hit them once?
thank you very much, sorry if my English not good enough.

Well i'm new, but I read some of these comments and their all very biased. I can tell its your opinion. Anyways I was wonderin what style Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee uses.

there is no best martial art, now days, unless you want to be a professional fighter, or you need to know fighting for your job, there is no reason why you should need to know more than self defence, incase you fall intoa situation where you need to defend yourself, or someone else.

but the answer lies within what can martial arts do for you, and what do you want to gain out of martial arts; whether it be fitness, self defence, grappling, kung fu etc etc. answer this, and you will find your best martial art

hey you are worse than a white belt if you think you are a master then respect others 111

Is the best because it takes form everything but is limited to nothing. It is not just hand to hand but anything, jkd could be a stick if you have one, it has no limits. Just know a martial arts , or even being a "master" does not mean you can't lose it just increases your odds. Anyone that has downed a martial art , please do research on the martial art that you are downing, i can't stand it, saying things like kung fu, karate, are just genralizations, there are so many different varitaions or each, just try them.

Jeet kune do sucks:
www.youtube.com

we never to old to learn and we all learn from the rest, who would you fight a trained fighter or somebody that teach themself.... me i would be worried with the selftrained cos the unprodictable but trained you know the next move cos they trained for it.

Wow, you're stupid. Self-trained fighters suck.

after reading all of these forums posted its clear you guys aren't listening to each other there is no best martial arts it all depends on the practitioner. But if i had to pick one main martial art to study and practice i would do san shou. Now even tho muy thai has powerful kicks, judo wrestling and greco roman have great takedowns. San shou covers most of that. It delivers powerful kicks great boxing and not to mention great takedowns and throws. Its defect would probably be the ground game other than that its a great martial arts.

Jun fan jeet kune do or "the way of the intercepting fist" is seriously THE best, but it is not a martial art, neither a style for sport, it is merely a name, but all in it, it makes it THE BEST!i have been training only for 4 months, BUT, my sifu(teacher) was trained under Dan Inosanto, Paul Vunaak, and others. It is fast, and teaches to get through any obstacle that the opponent puts up. As bruce lee says, quote "Be like water" unquote. Any karate/tae kwan do or any other useless martial art can come and TRY to kick my ass. Muay Thai, Silat, Sambo, Jui Jistsu, Judo, Western Boxing, Wing Chun, and Kali/Escrima is very good as well.

San Shou is awesome, but fuck Jeet Kune Do. It's full of a bunch of pussy faggots and Bruce Lee wannabes. And of course you say it's "not a style for sport", because you're too pussy to go in the ring and get punched in the face for real.

any martial art obviously has a decent advantage over an opponent who hasn't studied. I'll go with Taijutsu and JKD for pure practicality of defence in the street, both equally ruthless and unforgiving, lots incapacitating techniques, both hailed by global security and military agencies. I mean, you've only got to look at what a 78 year old can do with it (Dr Massaki Hatsumi).

Hatsumi is a fucking fraud.

honestly i think jujitsu is the one of the best ninjitsu is also pretty intense.. but i study jujitsu and the only people i havent been able to beat are people in kung fu because their simply too fast witch is what that martial art is based around but while in most martial arts u learn how to punch and kick but at teh same time someone in jujitsu is learning to catch ur arm/leg and either break it or put you in a sumbissive hold witch might follow by them then breaking ur arm/leg.. but then everything has its upsides and downsides