yes i agree most of jet-lis movies are sped up for example last hero of china or something likes that and most of that times movies.

but i did not say jet-li is a bad fighterhe is a 5x sholin champ, he fights better than he acts, if you read my "comeback bruce lee" link properly than you would not have to post this comment. jet-lis ass will be beaten up because jet-li was only a champ not a top master. and lee easyly defeated the master.

so please read link properly, cause you made a fool outa yourself. but no harm done, now you know the fact.

neathertheless! "bruce lee is the grand master in history" quoated by shoulion masters for his speed strengh agility and mind over body. and the fact that he kicked a master in 3 mins, and jet has never thought about facing them because they are beyong his skill.

jet lis movie are not sped up. the movie hero..ill give you that because it was a quentin tarintino movie and he always uses special effect crap. but jet would definetly beat jackie not 2 mention hes young,fast,and fit. i like jackie and i dont like 2 insult him-but he not fit. and jet is so much better than jackie. i did love the movie drunken master though

finaly someone agrees that jet is not just an actor!thank u

YIP MAN
yip man refered lee as average, when lee was still at his academy that was the age of no more than 18. and bruce was not the best at wing chun itself he was considered the best at kung fu all together, so yip man cant really say anything about bruce. agian i did not say jet-li was just an actor. and his movies are sped up, LIKE the last hero of china, not hero the movies. but jet-li has alsome speed no doupt, but not as fast as bruce

i did not say he was name by monks, just master of shoulin kungfu accdemy. just because you know shoulin kungfu doesnt mean your a monk jet-li knows shoulin kungfu doesnt mean his a monk.

maybe he has a couple movies sped up.but most of them arnt like kiss of the dragon-black mask-cradle 2 the grave(which totaly suckd,im sry 2 say). and maybe some of his older movies. the ones with all that flying stuff. but there are ppl faster than bruce i hate 2 say. he not the fastest person out there. and reading all this probly makes u think i dont like bruce that much, but i do rele like bruce- i just think he the best of HIS time

i recon jet can kick all of your asses so shut da fuck before i hack in ya computer u oxkillbillxo

ur an idiot dude.cradle 2 the grave was his worst movie. wathc his other movies. and no..and jet could kick those faggots asses

you said that so well its unbeivable

ur gay dude. 1st of- on enter the dragon, bruce didnt do anything special. and they dont make jet look good with modern technology u idiot..he already is good. bruce could kick anyone ass in his time. i watched enter the dragon and i aleady kno all the crap he did.it was nothing special

oxkillbill or whateva fuck your name is, understand who your talking to, i simply say my point and if you dont like it, who cares. speak about... or to me like that once more and ill teach you a lesson that that you will not forget. If you like me to explain in more detail just ask and see what will happen within a few days

shut up uy little pissant. ill fuckin kill u. ur nuttin but a jack off faggot who wants 2 learn martial arts but ur mommy cant afford it. u act all tuff. "oh watch who ur talkin 2". wut? u act like ur a gang leader-faggot

hmmmmmm, the only person youll kill is your daddy...you peace of shit...i enjoyed playing with your mum...and dont wory i will find you soon, untill then, keep your mum warm

ur tryin 2 scare me u little bitch? come on u little dirt merchant. ur a little fag. u probly punch the same as u take it up the ass

hmmmm. how comes every comment of yours has some relation to humping a man,,,,i guess you where dady's boy ha????

I bet he just told you that what you were doing was QUALITY TIME'

You faggit

um no u idiot. i said it once

whats up with the name dude?

Thankyou, finally someone with knowledge of Bruce and the art of JKD

It is just that simple. Bruce Lee was timeless. His warm ups and work outs were decevingly effective. If you want to criticize them as out dated, you try to do what he did. Find his work out journals and follow them for 2 weeks and see how outdated they are. If you understood Tao of Jeet Kune Do you would realise why Lee uses basic attacks. The advanced forms and flashy moves are useless. Jeet Kune Do is directly to the point, not pretty, but very effective. All of you who are arguing with sexual references and being childish are not True Martial Artists, and will never progress beyond a brawler. Unless you were to figure out what it means to be a Martial Artist... BTW: Most any martial arts you pay for are probably not the best out there.

well said...if anyone including myself, can follow bruce lee's training program ill say i am wrong, untill then ...

ur chinese..lol. sry i just thought that was funny because it was totaly random. no offense dude-chinese people are awsome. it was just funny. thats like me saying im italian!. but yeah jackie is pretty good but he definetly couldnt beat bruce. and jet li is very good 2

yeah and this is for the gunnz187 person. i c ur point and i didnt think about that. i mean the whole thing about bruce devoloping more phsyically and mentally. if he were still alive he would be 1 hell of a badass. jackie would look like nothing- but dont get me wrong i never said bruce wasnt the best. he just not the best because hes dead. if he were alive hed kick anyones ass

i hope you realise that through your comment you have proved yourself to be a poor martial artist. you failed to see my point, and in a rash judgement, have decided to call me names. The point is not that bruce lee trained with these "out dated" programs, which they are not, for no one has yet to surpass his physical abilities, bruce lee DID them. Rather than look at them as out dated look at them as a testament to his stregnth. Lastly: I said nothing bad about you. Only that your actions showed you to not be a true martial artist. Simply put, your body may be expirenced but your mind works like a brawler's.

Bruce Lee did not need to expand or learn more. Our physical training may have improved, but martial arts are traditional, they are actually deteriorating over the years. No one will argue that Lee needed more training, he was the most fit man ever, so that is not a problem. As far as speed goes, Lee still holds the world record for the fastest professional fighters punch at .04 seconds, and his legs could throw 5 shinn knee kicks in a single second. As for power, haven't you seen the pictures of people flying from his one inch punch? Basically, No one has surpassed Lee to this date, as a professional martial artist. I do not mean to be cocky or anything. I am nothing special, but Bruce Lee deserves your respect.

Who was more fit than Lee?
What Martial Art since Jeet Kune Do is more respected?
Less than .2 seconds for a kick is reasonable.
Bruce Lee died from overtraining.
Lee didn't need more training to be on top.
You arent proving that you are a Good Martial Artist through your anger, poor grammar, poor spelling, and lack of open mindedness. Maybe you can't through 5 kicks in one second because you don't think you can.

In the world of martial arts, you have stated your point as newer = better, but unfortunately you have stated a politically incorrect statement due to the fact that a new martial art created this very day, is better than any other martial art created before..What if I had decided to go outside and make a martial art right now. Now am I the best in the world? I don't think so. 5 Kicks in One second is not even close to the world of impossible, but if you've never seen it then its hard to believe. But I personally have felt 5 kicks in half a second, and I can tell you that it is something to be really...admired. I don't think that you have seen anything near advanced enough to state such strong opinions on other people's ideas and opinions. To be a true martial artist, you must be true to yourself, and obviously your hard headedness has created a void for your expansion as a martial artist and created a road for your brawling career. Bruce Lee had----HAS---The world record for Relative Strength _Isometrically, and Isotonically_ If you believe that this strength is matched, then please bring the man or woman forward. I believe that your stating of such insults would not only make you look bad, but it also makes the martial art you represent look bad. If I were you, I would NOT bear the name Intercepting Fist, if you don't understand the concepts. Jeet Kune Do is the art of Modern Practical -PRACTICAL- Fighting, and well 2 second kicks don't count as practical fighting. Average Reaction Time = .2 Seconds Male. .18 Seconds Female....

Any Questions?
Comments?
Concerns?


Got Milk?

I always have and Always will repect Bruce Lee...He's been my inspiration since I was a child. What I mean is, is that even though he may have been "the most fit man alive", he would have, as time progressed, found more ways to test his limits, if not surpass them. As Far as Bruce Lees' Art Form..."use what you can, discard what you cant". That was his Philosiphy. No body is a "master" in "Jeet Kune Do". Its not meant to be "Mastered". Its meant to be used to "better ones self". Lets stop getting caught up in "My art is better than your art". I'm not personally attacking anybody here, i'm just saying it in general. I'm sick of my friends saying stuff like,"Kung Fu San Soo is SO much Better. My Sifu can kick Bruce Lees' ass". Its aggravating. Just focus on the fact that that Bruce is gone. We'll NEVER know what he would be capable of. EVERY one of our 'theories' means NOTHING. There's no POSSIBLE way that can be proven, nor disproven. so, in closing, I ask this...Why do we argue about this, to this extent?

I almost forgot...You can say he's timeless all you want. What more do we know about Bruce Lee....THE MAN, aside from his writings and his movies? How do YOU know, HE didnt think that he needed to improve himself? Albeit, he was a fine speciman, but did HE think that? Why do you think he pushed himself so hard? He was never satisfied with his ability. He ALWAYS wanted to better. But if his death proves something, its GOTTA be this:You cant be better, than the best. Think about that...again, this is not a personal attack, just food for thought. I've been a VERY avid practitioner of "Kung Fu San Soo" for 3 years now...and you would not BELIEVE the things these Sifus' have to say about Bruce Lee. I ignore it, for I know it is not true...But do some research n these people...They have, and will forever, hate Bruce Lee. It is said, and I quote," Bruce Lee walked into Jimmy H. Woos' 'Dojo' (if you will) and asked to be taught the art of King Fu San Soo' which was brought BY Jimmy H. Woo, from China. Legend says, Jimmy Woo tossed him a quarter and told him to go get some Ice Cream, and dont EVER come back." A little lesson in Martial Arts History for ya'll.

I never said Bruce Lee was a master of JKD, and I never said Bruce Lee did not want to improve. What I did say was this: Bruce Lee was damn good. Out of respect, we should not say he is out dated. I know he wanted to be better, that is why he trained so hard, all I said is that he didn't Need to. You will not hear me say my martial art is better than yours, because that would do no good. I do not care if my Instructor can beat Lee, or anyone else for that matter. What I will tell you is this; My Instructors and school do not trash talk on other schools for being different. Constructively criticize yes, but not blindly hate. I am sorry that your "Sifu" doesn't respect all forms of self defence. Finally as for your "Legend" that is horrid. Any martial art that prides itself on hate, well it has a bit of a flaw. I can tell you that story is not true. Any chinese speaking person would recognise the flaw, Dojo is a japanese word for school not chinese. That also is not a lesson in martial arts history, that is a lesson in how to be a poor practitioner. Such hate and vile emotions hinder ones progression. Infact it makes me sad to hear that it happened.

P.S. 3 years is just getting started.

Let me sort this all out for you confused people. Bruce Lee died of a Cerebral Edema caused by multiple factors and to top it off, aspirin. I believe that Asprin had caused an allergic reaction, but does asprin alone kill someone? Doubtful. He had previous head problems during the past year and suffered from multiple on the spot seizures, and did NOT take asprin. The Exact reason for his death is truly unknown and it still is being debated, as it is here. He died July 20, 1973 at a fellow actresses house while discussing his movie "Game of Death" (which was NOTHING like it was planned to be by Lee). Bruce Lee sought for self improvement, he didn't ever claim of reaching a limit or he would have stopped working out. He kept working out to benefit his skills as a martial Artist. Strength and Flexibility he believed was the key to fighting, as well as good footwork, balance, coordination, speed. Bruce had discovered and practiced CONSTANTLY on 5 types of speed. But the truth is, there is NO master of JKD. Jeet Kune Do stands for "The way of the Intercepting Fist" which is a bunch of concepts that enforce the way "Hitting your opponent before they can hit you". It was a styleless style. Jeet Kune Do itself cannot be criticized due to its effectiveness, unless --YOUR-- Style is "Get Hit so you don't hit them first". Which if it was, I would feel really sorry for you.

I'd like to touch on a couple of things... I apologize for my former comment... I understand what you are saying, and that is true...What my Sifu said, means NOTHING to me...his ability as a martial artist transends(i think i spelt that wrong) his flaws in thinking. I do not now, nor will I ever agree with his way of thinking or feeling of Bruce. I know 3 years is getting started...I never said I was a badass...Furthermore, I would like to say, for the Record, that whether what was said about Jimmy Wu and Bruce is true or not, I dont care. I was simply trying to tell you all what I was told, and it was misconstrued...I apologize to you all for my lack of thinking in the way It was said. But...back to the subject: Bruce DID die mysteriously, and I don NOT believe it was asprin ALONE. I have never BEFORE his death, nor SINCE his death heard of such a thing happening to any one person. I personally believe SOMEBODY, not SOMETHING caused his demise. He was cut down in his prime, as most pioneers are. He was a pioneer in the Movie Industry and a pioneer in The world of Martial Arts. Not only did he Expand on the already "Expansive" repetoir of Martial Arts, He Paved new Roads in The Understanding and Conceptions of Martial Arts in ways never thought possible. He did unimaginable things in gaining respect and the such...Now we all know this is true... When a new idea is Brought before the world, there will ALWAYS be those that challenge the idea, or even discard the notion of changing ones' own Ideas. Those that REFUSE to be open to new Ideas. Open the Picture wider for yourselves...Look at ALL he did...do any of you agree? I would LOVE to see your feedback on that. I have never asked anybody their thoughts on that subject. Now, like I've said before, I do not challenge anybody in here in a disrespectful way. I know there are people in here who are one-track-minded and refuse to be civil. But for the most part, you are all very open and intelligent people. I respect you all for your ideas and thoughts...(sorry for making this so long!)

On Condolencies of everyone, I thank you for approprietly displaying a gentleman's attitude. You have my respect, as a martial artist, and as a person.

"Attitude is what really counts in a heart connected martial artist"

I see all the conflicting opinions in here, and it hurts me. To see all of these people Arguing over Styles and Arts and on and on and on...If any of the people that this message is referring to, have ANY knowledge of the man this board is mainly about, you would see the flaws in your actions...a wise man once said,"Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against." Ring any bells? I would still like to read your comments on my former comment. I enjoy seeing your feedback. Lohanadvance1, I thank you for giving me your respect, for I dont feel I deserve it, i feel I earned it. And one more thing...It takes more of a man, to say something like that, than to go and talk trash. I admire your honesty, Lohanadvance1. One more for you:"To obtain enlightenment in martial arts means the extinction of everything which obscures the "true knowledge," the "real life." At the same time, it implies boundless expansion and, indeed, emphasis should fall not on the cultivation of the particular department which merges into the totality, but rather on the totality that enters and unites that particular department." Hope to read some feedback soon!

I like that quote, who wrote it? By The way, you guys can call me by my name if you want, its Chad. I don't see any harm in giving my name since we are all Martial Artists here.

I was begining to wonder if Chad and I (David) were the only respectable people here. Gunnz187 you are one smart man, and a true martial artist. I strive to be one, sometimes fall short, especially when passionate subjects come up. Such as Bruce Lee. I hate it when people talk trash on him, even IF he was not the best known, he was a great man deserving respect...

That quote came from a wise man indeed...None other than The Man, The Myth and The Legend himself, Bruce Lee. Often times, his intelligence was overlooked due to his PHENOMENAL physical abilities, as you can see. But both of those quotes were both by Bruce Lee. Chad and David, nice to meet you both. I hope we can continue having these conversations, so to speak.

How have you all been as of late? I've been a little sick...talk to you all later!

i never talked trash about him. and bruce does deserve respect. but i just dont beileve he was the "best" and no1 could beat him

Lets just say for one second here we're ALL on the same page. Lets just open up our minds and think "outside the box" if you will. Bruce Lee was said to be the best, because he issued an "open" challenge to anybody out there, and got little response. People constantly challenged his abilities verbally, yet how many people backed it up? Look at it that way for a second. I, of all people however, believe in a "food chain" of sorts. I believe that there was somebody out there who could have beaten Bruce, because there is ALWAYS going to be somebody out there who is better...no doubt. Now, we can all get back into our respective boxes...lol. I just thought I would bring that to light for those who didnt know. Thanks.

For all the ppl that think jet li was the best...think again..bruce lee was the most unique martial artist on the face of the earth....he trained day and night to acheive the perfect body..even arnold shwarzenneger,kareem abdul,chuck norris....all admitted that bruce lees body was in perfect shape and was the best ever..bruce lee cud break bundles of bamboo sticks like this...and ice slabs with punches...bruce trained for power in punches rather than size of his body..he trained for endurance of any kind....he sed 'be formless,shapeless like water' which meant that someone shud be able to adapt to any situation...theres simply no point of practicing steps which u will not apply in real life..[basically karate,judo,taekwondo,shaolin kung fu]....ive seen jet li train..all he does are katas[or his shaolin steps] real fast thats all....most of his movies have special affects...and he cudnt do 2 finger pushups at the rate we do normal pushups cud he??...bruce lee cud!!...well..there we have it...and as for jackie chan...he shud be the best martial artist after bruce lee...he too has his own conceptions..he uses his environment around him to get out of any situation...and as for bruce lees speed...no one cud ever possess it again...and he never actually used his real speed in movies as quite some times he struck some ppl by mistake..and sometimes the cameras wudnt catch it..:D...i practice kung fu myself...but since i knew bruce lee...i trained harder using the workouts..and i used bruce lees tricks and conceptions...i was always 'active and alert' and in sparring i cud beat anyone except the sir..which i will soon acheive..and also..after my training..i can crack my fists jus like bruce lee did...just by clenching them...:D..and also his wife sed bruce lee was nothing special...he acheived this through intense will power!!..and philosophy...his legend will always live..and those who think anyones better...go fuck urself!!!!

Ok...I must go this one on my own... You contradicted yourself a couple of times in your statement. You said he "could Break bundles of bamboo" or "smash blocks of Ice". Am I the only one that remembers Bruce Lee Saying,"Boards, dont hit Back." I can break a board with my hand. I could...if I wanted to. I could Smash a block of Ice, if I wanted to...but tell me, (another contradiction) How that applys to your real(everyday) life. I think you failed us in a couple areas. First...You "claim" to be a Martial Artist. Yet, you are so cocky. Why? What do you aim to prove through cockiness? If you study Bruce, Cockiness should have no place in your attitude. "Ultimately, martial art means honestly expressing yourself. It is easy for me to put on a show, and be cocky so I can show you some really fancy movement. But to express oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, and to express myself honestly enough; that my friend is very hard to do." Anybody care to guess at who said That? Enough of the "Jet is BEST!" or "JACKIE IS FAKE!" Each of these men, in their own ways, is unique. I would LOVE to see them in a movie together. That would be sweet. If you were a martial artist who truly respected the art, you wouldnt come in here blasting us with vulgar comments. And one last thing...When the world is attacked by Ice Men and Bamboo people, we know we can count on you to take them out for us !

hello mr. retard u are the one being cocky and insulting bruce lee by comparing him to jet li!!!...bruce lee was an aspring martial artist....yes..and neither u or ur father can break huge slabs of ice for another 100 years!!..dont lie...and be 'cocky'..and compare urself to the one and only Bruce Lee...[R.I.P.]...and yes now i stopped practicin Kung Fu because i realised its just all show and no action...i wud never apply the steps in real life..and plus i kept what i needed...left what i didnt..i only use the simple and effective steps..use Bruce Lees concepts...workout and apply....not just knowing....applying..like Bruce Lee sais 'Knowing is not enough one must apply...willing is not enough one must do...'..so pls before calling me cocky..think twice..im a devout follower of Bruce Lees and by calling me cocky u have insulted me..and yea i do admit i was becoming cocky wasting my time insulting ppl who dont even understand tru martial arts...

And Yes, This is 'Mr. Retard'. Why are some people so ignorant?I'm 'Mr Retard', yet I dont abuse the english language like a redheaded stepchild. How can you say I cant do those things? Do you know me, who I am, or how extensive my training? Do you know how long I've been studying Kung Fu San Soo? I studied Jeet Kun Do for 7 yrs. I've been studying Kung Fu San Soo for quite awhile now... Yet I dont come out here and brag to everybody about what I can do or what I can break. I know what bruce lee said. I've got almost all of bruce lees important quotes memorized... I've actually thought about it 3 or 4 times and I STILL say you're cocky. You even said at the end of you comment, "yea i do admit i was becoming cocky wasting my time insulting ppl who dont even understand tru martial arts." Who are you to say WE dont understand True Martial Arts? Do YOU even know what you say, BEFORE you say it? I think I've wasted quite enough time on your feeble minded rants. For the REST of my esteemed peers who care about about adding to my rebuttle, please, feel free.

yes.. u r VERY IGNORANT rawal! "oh, u cant compare jet to bruce"??? u seriously need to open ur mind. bruce vs jet? if bruce would win...it would take a lot of his strength and a long time. jet would have a chance with him, no doubt.

Rawal, I can tell you know that Kung-Fu is not for show!
i have nearly mastered the five animals of Shaolin. If you think its for show then fly down here and spar with me. Your Jeet Kune Do, as fast as you believe it to be, will be no match for an insulted Tiger expert!
And i will then show you how the snake will get around Jeet Kune Do attacks.
My training involves street defence and to spar against any other style. My Master Is one of the 7 masters of Australia! i am getting the best training i can in Australia!
I don't think kindly on disrespectful martial artist. Wake up and realise Jeet Kune Do is not the best!
Sorry but i am pissed off right now!

Gunnz...like you claim..that u studied JKD for 7 years and then switched to Kung Fu San Soo..i beleive that you would never study another martial art if you studied JKD for 7 years..:D..and as for you 5 animals...im very sorry when i said Kung Fu is all show...but most of the steps are not applied in real life!!..the real fast ones apply..but still they dont help so much...what if the other guy mixes up his moves..and you have to follow Kun 3...then what happens???..please guys think...

You have hard one of my stories on how i challenged four kids my own age, after they beat up my friend. All of my attacks and steping, both fast and slow were mroe than enough. These guys weren't just your avergae guys either, they are the "gang" that roamed Parkdale (suburb where i live) so they knew how to street fight, my kung-fu was more than enough to take all four at once

Why must some people STILL be that closed minded. I studied Jeet Kune Do for 7 years...for various reasons. I still practice the art till this day. I started studying Kung Fu San Soo AFTER my Sifu passed away. He told me to expand my horizons and gather as much knowledge as I could about various arts. I chose Kung Fu San Soo. Everybody has their reasons for doing what they do. You have yours, I have mine. And I will say this, Rawal...I respect the Art Of Keet Kun Do as much as any of you, and I still believe to this DAY, that Jeet Kune Do is NOT the "BEST". As Bruce Lee himself said, Each Art has its strenghts and weaknesses, but the true power of the specific art, lies solely in the person who uses it. yea, Bruce Lee Founded Jeet Kune Do, but just because you studied it and maybe even trained with him, doesnt mean that you would utilize it the same way he did. Basically what I'm saying is, You may be a master in Jeet Kune Do...He may be a master in Jeet Kun Do...But that doesnt mean you are going to mirror each others abilities. Do you get me? Its age old tradition, my friend. Its common knowledge(sad at best) that if you Study a certain Art,(ie, Kung Fu, Aikido, Hapkido, Karate...) You're going to believe that your art it Supreme among all. Be a little more open minded, man. Thats all I'm saying. People out there dedicate their LIVES to studying the martial arts. Dont trash us because of our beliefs, for we do not do that to you. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. Its a free world, man. Feel free to judge...but remember, 'Do unto others, That you wish done to you'. And for all of the others in the room, I thank you for your support and I'll look forward to hearing your comments.

From what I could actually understand in your comment, you basically stated what all of us here already knew. Your ignorance shows in the fact that you state 'nobody could surpass Bruce Lee'. Bruce Lee was a man, A human Being. He may have been one HELL of a physical speciman, but he was only 1 man. This has been mentioned before, because we all know that there is and was somebody out there that possibly could have beaten him. Just because they never presented themselves, doesnt mean they didnt exist. As far as him being so fast, they asked him to slow down for the cameras...Tell us all something we didnt already know. I knew that about Bruce Lee 20 years ago. Is there anything you'd like to add, that maybe some of us DONT know? Also, The Tao Of Jeet Kune Do wasnt written for "those who wanted to get into to fighting." It was written for those already studying the martial arts. It was a differed view on martial arts. Bruce believed in Formless Form...He wanted to convey that to the world. He wanted to break all barriers in the martial arts community. Instead of having people running around saying,"My style is better than your style", he wanted to give the world his conceptions and philosophys of what Martial Arts should be....and depending on the individual studying on the art, can be. Take this form, and make it your own. Dont confine yourself to a stance, or a preset movement.Those are some of the things he conveyed in his teachings and writings. Dont let your mind and body be restricted. That was his philosophy. Maybe next time, you might prepare an intelligent rebuttle, rather than come out swinging with empty fists of rage backed by a lack of knowledge.

shut the hell up. ur gay. jet can do 2 finger push-ups. iv seen him in movie. and that has nothing to do h\with how good he fights. retard.and as for dasempleton...ur a frakin loser who think "oh my god, noone could beta bruce lee" hate to break it to ya u little idiot..lots of ppl probly cud. a lot of great martialartists dont make themselves known. but there are a lot of martial artists out there.

well that does show his physical strength and capabilities
hahaha..and in what movie does jet li do two finger pushups?? show me and you'll get my respect..

no no. ur the idiot. 1st off my screen name is kataro_fuma. killbill was my name like 2 years ago. 2nd ...jet is 43 i think or maybe 44 but anyway..that not very old u dumbass. and i was comparing ihim to jackie chan.

hahah okay your name is now kataro_fuma..wow how could i know that you and killbill was the same person..
well jet li isn't in his 40's?? haha this is what it says
Jet Li Lian Jie was born on April 26, 1963
and today is what 2005??? well subtract 2005 from 1963 and you get 42 haha 42 looks old to me

jet's young compared to jackie...but hey bruce is still the greatest =]
other people can be up to his physical level or beat him in a fight but none can come close to what he did mentally..he accomplished more than what most could've in his short life ; graduating from university of washington with a degree in philosophy, breaking the racial barriers in martial arts, forming his own ingenious art of fighting without any certain style or restrictions [jeet kune do], one-inch punch?, etc....
jet is great but can't compare

"I am learning to understand rather than immediately judge or to be judged. I cannot blindly follow the crowd and accept their approach. I will not allow myself to indulge in the usual manipulating game of role creation. Fortunately for me, my self-knowledge has transcended that and I have come to understand that life is best to be lived and not to be conceptualized. I am happy because I am growing daily and I am honestly not knowing where the limit lies. To be certain, every day there can be a revelation or a new discovery. I treasure the memory of the past misfortunes. It has added more to my bank of fortitude."
- Bruce Lee

Wise words from Bruce, as always!

yeah

can u read?? i said i think he is 42 or 43.did u catch that part? my point was, thats not very old. my dad is 45 and he could kick u and all ur friends asses at the same time. therefor..u have proven ur an idiot and u cant read. and i have no doubt jet would have a chance shuving ur head and bruces head up ur guys asses. bruce was never the 'best' and will never be the 'best' i have not doubt in my mind that the was someone and there is someone right now out there that could kick jet bruces and jackies ass. open ur mind.

That was an awesome quote from Bruce Lee. You pretty much summed up what I was trying to say, in that quote. I applaud you. Thank you.

my comment is 42 is not old for a martial artist. martial artists are still practising the day before they die, whether its mental or physical.

everyone who says bruse is so good becuase he can do a one finger push up. Has anyone here checked the images section lately?!?!
There you will see a Shaolin monk doing the one finger zen... a handstand on one finger!!!
Bruce lee's body was an excellent one, but the body, mind, spirit of the shaolin monks in unbeaten. They train not to feel pain!! they are, by far, the best martial artists in the world.

This is just my opinion, if you feel that you should be disreaspectful towards other martial artist please insult me.. but remember, martial arts is not about whos best, or who more famous, or whos faster etc. its about inner strenghtening, health for body and mind, self-defence etc.
so if you call yourself a martial artist you cannot bag someone else views

If one considers themself a true martial artist, they should know not to judge others. And About Five_Animals comment on shaolin monks. I had forgotten about that...Does anybody remember seeing the image of the shaolin monks setting themselves on fire....sacrificing their lives to show that they believed in a cause? To me, that proves that strength of mind and heart, surpasses physical strength by far.

hey fuma i know what i put and i know you edited your statement after my entry...so yes i can read...
i didn't say 42 meant you were weak, old and washed-up .all i said is in realistic society standards..42 is not young..its not that old either but still not young..so i dont believe YOUNG is the right expression to call jet li (you declared he was young in your subject post).../but jetli as strong & middle-aged..yeah..

no problem gunzz..thanks for the applaud..bruce was a wise man..
and for that bruce remark made by kataro...umm..i agree someone could miraculously beat him in a fight and all....but isn't martial arts really about truly expressing yourself?...i'm not really here to argue who's the best because noone can really be the best.and hearing you say bruce lee isn't the best and can never be the best shows your complete misunderstanding of the martial arts..and if you could tell every single detail in bruce lee's life..then you would be granted the right to judge him..i'm here to just tell you bruce awakened many people's eyes to martial arts..i believe he influenced many more people to martial arts culture than anyone ever could...he was the pioneer for jet li and jackie chan...is all im sayin'..he might not be the best ever...but in my opinion he made the first greatest impact of martial arts in america&around the world..and it was revolutionary..

yes..i do believe monks could do that and all and they're very great...but all I said to fuma was I never saw Jet Li do the physical feats that Bruce did..(ex. one finger pushups, one-inch punch, strong punches and kicks delivered in milliseconds)..and if i did see Jet perform those examples..then I'd be pleased to learn he was/is up to par with Bruce's physical level

okay when you were still killbill you said about bruce's workouts/warmups..being out-of-date?.c'mon now
when has it ever been about how fancy your warmup/workout is?..a simple workout is better than a fancy supposedly harder workout in my opinion..as long as it gets your muscles and cardio to work its fine isnt it..it's all about consistency and hard work is all..in my opinion fancy hard workouts makes it much more complicated & in turn breaking your consistency..

42 is not old but it is is not young i guess

i didnt mean he should use all the crappy new "advanced" work out machines. bbut look at bodybuilders. after periods of time the bodybuilders are always finding new things to make them bigger. look at aarnold swatsanegger (however you spell it), he was rele big in his time. but now u can go to any gym around and see ppl twice as big as him.not saying bruce wanted to be a body-builder . but it goes for working out without machines to.

Bodybuilders...Shwarzenneggar was MASSIVE in his day...But has anybody seen his body as of late? Massive blubber. Bruce Trained everyday to keep his body on point. Any body builder can tell you that built physiques need constant attention. Look at Bruces Body. If he would have stopped working out for more than 2 weeks, his mucsles would have broken down and turned to Fat. The good side, he could have reformed his muscles in half the time afterwards. Bruce had it down......and had it down well.

Okay, Kataro, martial arts focuses on ability not how big you are. Bruce Lee trained to be fast not BIG and yeah people can be big and all with new techniques to get bigger. Bruce was at one point buff and big like a bodybuilder gaining over 60 lbs. He found this slowed him down rendering his muscles useless. He was looking to always attack and not defend with his body. So being on the thin side but still incredibly muscular would allow him to move and be as fast as he was. So no, his workouts weren't out-of-date it was just designed simply for his body alone to make him FAST & STRONG not big and not like a bodybuilder. And people around the gym getting bigger than Arnold? Well thats the "BIG bodybuilding" world, which can get more advanced with new pills (lol jk) but based on lifting more heavy weights&eating more, unlike the martial arts world where its based on speed, reaction, strength, etc... Basically, BODYBUILDING world-based on outside appearance & buffness mainly, MARTIAL ARTS world-based on physical ability like speed & strength. So, please don't compare two completely different worlds that have different purposes to make the other sound out-of-date. (Even though some body-building workouts are needed to improve strength, they aren't designed to make you big if your training for martial arts).

Now days no one is ever bigger than arnnie was, reason being Steroids were Legal back in his earlier days, thats why he was so big, and thats also why he has had a triple heart by-pass. Steriods moves all the fat out of your body and puts it around the heart (it also shrinks your nuts) And most workouts that bodybuiders do accually destroys their body in the long run, they do too much damage to their bone structure and muslce growth.
Who here would believe me if i said that sit-ups cause more harm than good?
If you don't, look it up (i am not going to call you dumbarses like some others in here)
Reason being, you all know crunches yeah (shorter version of a sit-up) once you go past crunch hieght you accually using your back muscles to pull you up, not your stomach muscles. It also puts heaps of strain on a little muscle (can't remember the name) bewteen your naval and groin (its a long thin muscle). These are the two main reasons. So all of you who do sit-ups, try the crunches, you don't want to stuff up your back.

yah of course steroids r illegal now..but ppl still take them. there are ppl twice the size as arnold. because ppl learn more as years go by. and meindrgn..u missed my point by a mile. im not saying that bruce wanted to be a body builder..im saying that, LIKE bodybuilding, ppl learn more. in that arnnie was huge in his days..now there are lots of ppl as big as him. same as martial arts. ppl learn more and get better.
and..about the bodybuilers and sit-ups and everything..im not trying to argue. but bodybuilders kno a lot. they arnt stupid. it takes brains to get as big as a lot of ppl out there. they kno what good for them and whats not, and 'natural' bodybuilder are ppl who are bodybuilder who do not take steriods. my dad use to be a natural bodybuilder. mostly ppl who are natural bodybuilders do it because they figure steroid hurt ur body and one main purpose of bodybuiling is taking care of ur body and being healthy. thats why my dad never took steroids.

I just got Enter The Dragon: Special Edition on DVD. I watched Fists of Fury. Chinese Connection. Return of the Dragon. And I gotta say this...bruce, wasnt about being quick in his movies. he was more about philosophy. Dunno....just something I caught unintentionally. I mean, we know he was fast, but he wasnt about quickness in his movies. Just a thought...

Okay, I agree with every one who says, We have beter film technology than thirty years ago, mainly pointing out the film the chineese connection, where bruce moved faster than the camera, creating the Wavy hand effect after the filmwas slown down.

Lets just stop talking about how fast they were in the movies, because thirty/ forty year old cameras are handicaps.

Now im not going to say Jet had no chance of beating Bruce, but I will point out Jeet Kune do is one of the Newest martial arts out there, Jet Li learned Wu shu.
SO the fact Jet li has learned a "NEWER ART" is incorrect.

And about bruces Body building history, After Discovering the weaknesses of wing chung gung fu, he decided to Create amartial art that combined Form, and instinct. also to create a martial art that gets things done quick. Thus Resulting in Jeet kune DO
(intercepting fist)

So in order for Bruce to get things done quick, in the simplest way possiblehe needed to be fit enough to execute a blow powerful enough to render ones opponent UN able to continue.

Bruce was younger than Jet is now when he died.

Both Jet and Bruce Have allot of skill, talent, and spirit.

IF they Ever had a chance to fight, im sure it would have been a good one.

I dont think that was covered much before.....yes, Bruce tried to emphasize strongly that his goal was to get from Point A to Point B with as minimal effort as possible, while at the same time, as much force as possible. Going against what you said, though,is the fact that yes, Jet learned an older art...A Time TESTED art. Bruce's art was still in baby form when he died, so we'll never know ALL THERE IS TO KNOW THAT HE WANTED US TO KNOW about Jeet Kune Do. Its going to be, whether anybody agrees or not, a bigger mystery than anything. But what he did bring to the world, was awesome at best. I think that we all have good opinions and ideas. Nobody's right. Nobody's wrong. I just like to see all the thoughts you all have to share. Keep em coming guys!

WHAT!? Even if I could understand that, i would guess an answer.....You're still missing my point. Nobody knows who would have won...a NUMBER of factors play in to that. Jesus....let it go. WE DONT KNOW WHO WOULD HAVE WON A FIGHT, BETWEEN BRUCE LEE AND JET LI. Although Bruce Lee DID smack Jackie Chan in the face with a stick in "Enter The Dragon"...

Bruce and Jackie used to be friends. So in real they would neve have a fight! The hit with the stick was an accident.

It was still hard and looked cool.

In the old MA movies where no computer special effects and most was real (with the use of tricks of course). Sometimes things went wrong and somebody got injured. But Jackie never cared much about that.

hi everyone, my names chris and i stumbled across this website and i just wanted to share my opinion. Bruce Lee without a doubt would beat jackie chan and jet li in a one on one unarmed fight. there is really no arguement. bruce lee trained for the soul purpose of combat. jeet kune do was strictly about fighting, no forms, no b.s. Jet li was a champion, but you have to realize that he was a champion in forms, not fighting. wushu is all forms and very traditonal. jackie chan was a stunt man, and agreed himself that hes no bruce lee. i can talk on for hours, and be all scientific, but bruce lee is simply the best. I'm in mixed martial arts, and used to be in shaolin tien long vo dao kung fu. yes they are all unique in there own way, but if we're talking combat, bruce lee is the man.

Like I've said before...if Bruce Lee WERE still alive, he may have a fighting chance. However...If you take Jet Li NOW and Bruce Lee THEN, it would be a very close fight...slightly in favor of Jet. How many people would bet their money on Jet Li? How many would bet on Bruce? At this point, its only a matter of opinion. Who's to say that Bruce wouldnt have developed another aspect of Jeet Kune Do, FURTHER perfecting the already seamless art? We'll never know. Never. I say, we drop this whole Bruce would Beat Jet thing, because we will NEVER know. Just for entertainment purposes....Check out Dragon Lee. A Korean fighter that was MOLDED into the new bruce lee back in the 80's. Funny at best. He had plastic surgury done to LOOK just like Bruce. Rather entertaining to watch...

i agree that we should drop the "who would win" thing, but i just can't see jet li winning in any way. jet li is not a fighter, hes too nice, and never had the fighting background that bruce had. jet li dedicated his life to perfecting forms, and being flashy to entertain the crowds. bruce was stronger, in way better physical condition, and faster punchs and kicks. the difference is, jet li would have to be pushed to fight, and would probably only use minimal force whereas bruce lee would gouge your eyes and kill you. bruce was more versed in submissions, ground fighting, dirty boxing etc. sorry guys, i love jet li as an actor but he wouldn't stand a chance.

Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him- Bruce Lee

Dragon Lee's a fag. haha

me and my instructor were having a conversation about bruce, and its impossible to say if he was the best. theres probably some guy sitting at a gas station right now who would destroy bruce lee and not even know it. you know what i mean. bruce lee was truly amazing, the only human i've ever seen in that physical condition, with that much speed, and power for his size. he said he could beat anyone in the world, i'd like to believe it, because he is my Hero, but we'll never know. all we can do is thank him for sharing his philosophy about the martial way.

one more thing, i was reading that people were saying that he wasn't that fast or good in movies. well, what do you expect? if he actually applied his real fighting style in the movies, no fight would last longer then 5 seconds. what about in enter the dragon, when that guy came into bruce's room and said you must attend the morning rituals in uniform, and then bruce says outside! and when he leaves bruce punches like 6 times in half a second. that was pretty fast!

I've been holding this one back for awhile...For every Martial Artist in the public eye, whether it be Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li....whoever, does anyone ever take into consideration that there MAY be martial artists around the world who are secluded, or refuse to be in the public eye? Or People who have trained their entire lives, that nobody knows about? My sifu brought that up to me, and I thought about it. We know about Bruce, Jet, Jackie....But what about the people we DONT know about? There has got to be at least one person in this world, that nobody has seen, that could crush these guys. Think about that. Not EVERYBODY seeks fortune and fame...

Monks would be able to beat any of those listed above. The Shaolin Monks train their wholes lives. THe only way they go public is to raise funds forthemselves or their cause.
I have had the pleasure to train with Shaolin Monks on a trip to China with my Sijo. It is the hardest thing i have ever done. They make it look easy, but i found it hard to keep up after 1/2 hour.

These people are super fighting machines. Its just as well that their religion is not one of violence, coz we'd all be stuffed (unless we used gunpower weapons :P)

Many people say that Bruce would kick the monks arse in Combat. Bruce as great, but not that great compared.

i'd have to disagree that shaolin monks are the toughest. they may be very solid in the fact that they train in iron shirt, Chi Kung, etc, but they aren't street fighters... i've trained in shaolin kung fu, and my sifu was very skilled, but street fighting is alot different then prancing around like animals. shaolin kung fu is more for spiritual practice and flashy routines. The top UFC fighters would destroy shaolin monks and bruce would too.

Lastly, i believe that bruce lee was and still is the best fighter pound for pound. for his size and weight, he was a machine and i honestly think hes the best fighter ever at 140ish pounds.

and to answer gunnz's question- bruce lee was the best that we know of, there was probably lots of people that aren't known that could beat him, but we'll never know. the only thing that makes people unsure of bruce is the fact that he never had a street fight on film. i'm sure that if he showed his skills for real, we'd all have a different opinion.

I am a practishioner in Shaolin Kung-Fu!
We do not prance around like animals! If you trained that, or if your training was what its supposed to be, then you'd know this!
Have a look at the images i've posted about the shaolin monks. Did Bruce or UFC fighters learn how to balance on spears? No! could they resist spear strikes to the torso and neck? No! Did they learn how to stop feeling pain all together? No!
I believe that the Monks are the only people who can do this. A warrior monk would have wasted Lee, and would Waste UFC fighters. I have beaten a UFC fighter, a friend of mine is one, i've beaten him, i ain't a monk!
The monks are machines! One finger Zen! a hand stand on one finger!

I'm sorry to get a little agro, but you must understand!

Ok....Time to pull out the big guns...How do we know Bruce was the best that we know of? Any movie any of us has ever seen with Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Bruce Li, Bruce Le, Bolo Yeung...etc WAS CHOREOGRAPHED! I mean, come on... All the fight scenes from any movie, are choreographed. How can everybody be sitting here saying that "Bruce is Better" "No, Jet is Better!" NONE OF US CAN SAY THAT. And about UFC fighters....give me a goddamn break. There is very little skill involved in a UFC fight. You either go for a knock out(WHICH ANYONE CAN DO, IF YOU SWING LIKE A WINDMILL) or wait for your opponent to get tired, and either pummel the piss out of them, or get them to submit. WHERE'S THE SKILL IN THAT?! I dont CARE if some of them are martial artists... In high school, I witnessed a brutal altercation between 2 students. One, was a second degree black belt in some form of kung fu...The other, was just a brawler...a kid who liked to fight. When The Kung Fu Kid got into his stance, the other kid pick him up by his collar, threw him to the ground, and proceeded to beat him into a coma. 7 weeks this kid was in a coma. he was a second degree black belt in some style of Kung Fu. I would have NEVER believed it if i wouldnt have seen it myself...so I dont care what anybody thinks...For every great fighter in the world, there is even greater fighters to best them...And like I was saying before...we'll never know who the greatest fighter WAS, IS, OR EVER WILL BE. We will be able to say, "He's the greatest fighter I'VE ever seen" But to put this argument to rest, consider yourselves ALL right. In your eyes, Bruce Lee was the best. In his eyes, Jet Li is the best. In her eyes, Jackie Chan is the best. Everybody interprets what they see, differently than someone else. Now, in following Bruce Lees footsteps, I myself, majored in Philosophy. If its one thing I understand about Bruce Lee, its that in every message he conveyed, there was a hidden meaning. Curious to know what? Drop a quote of his, and i'll tell you what he meant...

I'm not saying shaolin monks aren't good, i'm just saying its not practical, and too traditonal. just because you can balance on spears doesn't mean your a great fighter. i read somewhere that bruce could block out pain. anyways, if your telling me theres no skill involved in the UFc, then your very wrong. i train in UFC style fighting, and its very hard work. and therefore, your saying boxing, muay thai, and brazilian jiu-jitsu are garbage. if your saying randy couture or andrei arlovski don't have talent, then i'm speechless. shaolin kung fu is great, but its not functional in todays fighting. honestly, theres more to UFC style fighting then knocking eachother out. but let me ask you, isn't that what fighting is about? i know this is choppy, and i mean no disrespect to shaolin monks, but top UFC fighters would beat them. anyone can be knocked out, even if you can't feel pain. Chuck Liddel would knock out a shaolin monk because they don't know how to fight like that. they don't "street" fight. I've been in many kung fu tournaments, and i've met alot of shaolin monks and trained with them, and its nothing compared to UFC style training. if a brawler grabbed a shaolin monk they'd be screwed. little pressure points don't work, and they don't have ground jiu-jitsu. I don't know what else to say. haha. Mixed martial arts is the most advanced and functional fighting system. c'mon practicing forms over and over is a waste of time. I would bet my life that the top UFC fighter could take a shalin monk.

well, bruce did beat a kung fu master in 3 minutes (before he was really good), and the father of american tae kwan do said he'd never step in the ring with bruce. chuck norris, a very respected kickboxer said bruce would destroy him. 7th degree hapkido master said bruce would beat him. shaolin monks do not have the all around skills to beat bruce or UFC fighters. what about rickson gracie-- probably the best at brazilian jiu-jitsu in the world said bruce would beat him, and i know for sure rickson would submit a shaolin monk in seconds because they don't know how to defend against that. What makes shaolin monks better then bruce or UFC fighters? nothing that gives them the advantage. if you honestly think that bruce lee couldn't block out pain, c'mon, and UFC fighters are so used to it, it doesn't slow them down. I believe that shaolin monks would dominate of types of traditional styles like tae kwan do, and karate, but not mixed martial arts. the monks lack ground fighting, boxing, and correct form. kung fu stances are lame.

gunnz you said..

(WHICH ANYONE CAN DO, IF YOU SWING LIKE A WINDMILL) or wait for your opponent to get tired, and either pummel the piss out of them, or get them to submit. WHERE'S THE SKILL IN THAT?

first off, UFC fighters don't swing like "windmills" and i don't get what you mean by saying wheres the skill? the object of fighting is to pummel your opponent, am i not right? if they get tired, then you take advantage of it. if you can submit them, thats great! thats ultimate fighting. thats the way fighting should be, take advantage of there weaknesses and crush them. Unless of course, if your the type of person who would let your opponent stand up when you knock him down, i can see why you don't respect the UFC.

First of all, to gunz187, Jackie Chan is a he not a she.
Second of all, There is a lot of Skill in UFC.
and to who ever said it, shoalin monks don't have ground fighting?!? there is a style in Shaolin Kung-Fu called turtle style, its all ground work!
the top UFC fighter would fall to the top Shaolin Monk (and i don't mean abbot or high priest) There is more to monk training than practising forms over and over, and they know a hell of a lot more than just pressure points!
If you have actually trained with the Shaolin Monks, then you'd be on my side with things.
And if you think a monk would do shit on the street, you've got your balls in a fucken twist, mate!
They have the animal styles for a reason, Tiger for brute strenght and attack, snake for speed and percision, crane for unltimate defence and re-direction, panther for the abilty to give an attack thats always never expected (when you think of panther, think ninja), turtle for ground fighting, Bear style for strenght and submision (UFC would go under Bear) monkey for all low attacks and many more. Plus the Dragon, which is all of them combined! the strenght of the tiger, speed of the snake, defence of the crane, Stealth of the Panther etc.
They have attacks, blocks etc for any situation. They are better than a lot of you prob realise.

how is a turtle going to stop a brazilian jiu-jitsu expert? I have trained with shaolin monks and they are amazing to watch, but i've also trained with Mixed Martial Arts experts. I've been trained in crane, tiger, dragon, and snake styles, and it just wouldn't work. what would a shaolin monk do in crane style? stand on one leg and try to peck a UFC fighter with his crane fist. a monkey? roll around and jump up and attack him? Thats the thing, they imitate animals. they won't win against someone who is an expert in mixed martial arts. even emotionally, monks are buddhist, buddhist's are calm and nice, UFC fighters want to rip your head off. You can imitate animals all you want, but the fact is your not that animal. you say bear style for strength, well you don't have the strength of a bear, so its really just your strength and acting like a bear. speed of a snake- your just using your speed, and trying to act like a snake, and so on... you are a human being, not an animal, so therefore your fighting style should be of which suits humans, not copying animals that have differnt body types, and strength. shaolin kung fu is not ment for full contact freestlye fighting, its too flashy.

First of all I am an Animal, we are all animals, Humans are just a species of animal.
Second. If you put all the atributes of all the animals into one then its going to be bloody hard to beat.
If you were trained properly in Shaolin Kung-Fu then you'd realise this.
Buddhist monks are non- violent people, thats why we'd probably never see if a UFC fighter can beat a monk.
I am not sure if they still have them now, but in the olden days (like, long long time ago) they had warrior monks, monks who were trained to kill in combat.
Even the Buddhist monks were called to help protect and fight. They were the best. In a grand battle, 13 of the best monks went to face the generals opposing army. Monks were armed with a solid Iron staff (bo) and the best trained in Kung-Fu.
The fact is that they were, and still are the best.
Shaolin Kung-Fu is not ment for full contact, true. But if you use it in full contact then its going to be an effective style. I train to use it in full contact, but in the means of self defence. What good is it if i am on the street and get punch in the face!? if its the first time i'd prob hit the ground crying due to shock, or when i punched him i didn't do anything because i have not trained to hit people; but i do train for full contact. and it works

i didn't mean we aren't animals, i meant we are our own species of animals (humans), second, please stop referring that i wasn't trained "properly" because i was. i used to be crazy about shaolin kung fu, my e-mail has shaolinmonk in it, but i found something more effective. maybe to you, shaolin kung fu is the best. To me, Mixed martial arts is the best. thats our own opinions.

you contradicted yourself by saying shaolin kung fu is not ment for full contact, but then you said it would be effective in full contact. i'm just saying shaolin kung fu is great for traditonal fights, and competitions with rules, but its not ment for an "anything goes" type of fight. Fighting like a different species of animal is not going to knock out a guy like chuck liddell. Mixed martial artists just train for combat, shaolin monks have so many other things to train for and aren't just focused on fighting. its kinda like comparing bruce lee vs jet li. direct vs fancy, freestyle vs tradtion.

why do you think they are the best, for what reasons do they have the advantage over someone who is an all around fighter? i can't see a shaolin monk sitting on a guys chest pounding the shit out of him. they aren't that kind of people.

for a second, open your mind, and understand that you can imitate animals all you want, but you don't have the same qualities of them. you cannot copy a snake, we have legs and arms, same with every other animal. thanks to bruce, i've learned that i need to honestly express myself, and not lie to myself, so for me copying animals, and being bound by traditon and becoming mechanical robots isn't the the best form of fighting. well, if you go by bruce, there isn't a "form" of fighting. you should express yourself, you shouldn't have to think, oh, i'm going to change into me tiger style or now i'm going to be a turtle. BE YOURSELF. now, i'm not saying quit kung fu, i'm just trying to open your mind to my perspective of fighting.

In no way have i condradicted myself. I said it is not ment for full contact, Shaolin Kung-Fu is ment for developing your body and mind to the best of its ability. But just because it isn't ment for street fights doesn't mean it nwont work, because it has for me.
And as to what advantages do they have over other humans, i have only ever seen a shaolin monk withstand spear strikes to the neck, being able to balance on two spears (spears on nipples) withstand pain all together. Do the one finger Zen! they have truely the best bodies that man know about.
They have fighting styles for all round situations, ground standing what ever. They are considered the best martial artists for a reason.

There is no way that i am going to quit kung-fu, and i have reached black belt sash in other styles than Shaolin Kung-Fu. I have different perspectives.

My friend is in the UFC, and he admits that a fully trained Shaolin Monk would beat a UFC fighter, not without a fight though.

Just out of curiosity, what level was your instructor?

And just because they arn't they type of people to sit on a guys chest and pound the shit out of him doesn't mean that they arn't capable of doing so.
Have you ever got an emotion, say anger for e.g., which you didn't know you were capable of?

O and about the animal thing, i was not having a go at you or anything, sorry if it came that way, its just that a lot of people won't admit they are animals. I love Biology, so i tell them how they are :P
they only thing, ONLY thing that puts us above the animals is our intelligence (lol, is that spelt right. hm... intelligence indeed :P)
and if you didn't know, snkes have leg bones and tiny arm bones

Grandmaster Toan My To, 10th degree white sash. Originally he was a master in the crane style. hes a pretty intense guy. he was pissed off one day, and there was this huge bulky steel structure thing, and he thai kicked it as hard as he could, and the thing tipped over, and rolled for a bit. i think his leg was broken, but he didn't even care. you could see the bone all warped. i know shaolin kung fu is great, but in my own opinion mixed martial arts is better for strictly fighting. shaolin kung fu is way better for training the mind, meditaion, flexibility, etc, but pure fighting, like jab, cross, thai kick, i think mixed martial artists have the slight adavantage not to say it would be an extremely good fight.

by the way, whos your friend thats in the UFC?

Demitri Matriov (i think thats how you spell him name) he is not in the major leage of UFC, he traines their style and enters the UFC competitions.
10th degree, same as my master.
I don't see why he should have kicked the steel thing, he should have known better. But i guess he had his own reasons.

I never said Jackie Chan was a SHE....it was a matter of speaking, "IN HIS EYES, That guy is good...In HER eyes, this guy is better" you follow? And secondly, I stand by my statement about there being little to no skill involved in UFC. I'm a little guy...5'5, 180 lbs. I've been training in and studying Kung Fu San Soo for 7 years. I have a friend who is deeply trained in Vale Tudo...a UFC style...one of the main ones...He couldnt TOUCH me....and he's 5'11 280lbs. And no, if I can knock someone down, its lights out. I'm not about to give anybody a second chance. I've studied with Dan Inosanto for about 7 months. I know what Bruce Lee was trying to convey through Jeet Kune Do, because I got extensive training from his partner... Jeet Kune Do was NOT about a fixed style , as we know...I specifically focused on Kung Fu San Soo, Kickboxing, Wrestling, and Tae Kwon Do...I tell you...Shaolin monks, are good fighters indeed, but I posted a comment earlier on about how it does NOT matter what you train in, what you study, or what you are good at. It depends on the person. If the person is able to utilize his training and what he knows, he's a great fighter...KNOWING how to fight and LEARNING how to fight, are TOTALLY different things. And Chuck Norris was a KARATE champion, NOT Kickboxing. Also, I've experienced "Din Mak" personally. Also known as the touch of death...My sifu is a 3rd generation Kung Fu San Soo Master...once, while sparring, he touched my leg with his thumb, and asked me how I felt. I was a bit confused, but didnt think it as anything more than a joke...the next day, my leg was swollen and had a bruise the size of a football. I was scared but asked him why it was like that? All he said was, "Din Mak". Laugh if you want, Joke if you want...but it exists. and it IS possible...

just because your friend can't touch you doesn't mean thats its no good. maybe hes not as good as you even without training. my friends in tae kwan do, and i'd knock him out in a second. Its true thats its not the art you train in, but the person thats training. you can train in the best martial art ever, but if you don't got it, it won't matter what style you practise. for me, okay, for me, mixed martial arts is working. i learn stand up fighting, clinch, and ground. sorry about the chuck norris thing, don't know much about the guy, i thought he competed in kickboxing tournaments. i've experienced pressure points and such also, what i meant was, its hard to pull it off in a fight. if someone is trying to pound your face in, its very hard to execute. I respect dan inosanto very deeply, he'll forget more about martial arts than most will ever learn. this is why i like mixed martial arts. it's a mix of the best concepts of all the arts, there isn't a "fixed" style. and about the shaolin monks, i saw this very old guy who was a master of Okinawan Karate, wow, he was like 4 feet tall, 10th degree or something. soooooo good. he was a master of fighting. he would destroy a shaolin monk. the elite masters of any style are amazing, like you don't become a grandmaster if you suck. so, in conclusion, every style has brilliant fighters.

how can you say that theres no skill in the UFC? you put on that you are very knowledgable about martial arts, and then you put down the highest level of fighting. why is that? do you merely think that its just a slug fest? or do you think its no good because you can beat your friend whos an amateur in the UFC?

Why would you say the UFC is the highest level of fighting? Have you ever watched UFC? These people train daily, putting their full attention, minds, bodies, and souls into in...I have full respect for the martial artists and fighters, respectively. But the way the fights go, just blows me away...in the sense that, like I said...very little to no skill involved in the fights themselves...Its like once they get in there, its animosity at its worst. I mean, putting people into the Octagon for the sake of pummeling the dog crap out of eachother for entertainment is hardly, the highest level of fighting. My point is this....UFC fighters are mostly trained, disciplined martial artists...But when that horn sounds, its like all their training went right out the window. They become mindless drones, he swing and kick without aim. I have watched NUMEROUS fights, and i have YET to see a knockout. Sure, if you watch 'UFC:Ultimate Knockouts' you can see a crapload. Most end in decision. Pointless, mindless, and above all else...skillless. And about my friend...He was a SWC in the navy...he is a VERY talented Martial artist, and I have seen what he is capable of. And as far as "din mak" goes, it is very possible in a street fight. While sparring full contact, was when it happened to me. Considering that only few martial artists have mastered the technique, i'd say its pretty pointless to talk about, but in all honesty, i know what its MINIMAL injuries can be. Its a very scary thing...oh...and about your comment on monks...It is very true. Not just anybody can become Grandmaster...you were right on that. Like I said...There are people out there that we'll NEVER know about, that could be the dog piss out of anybody in this world. thing is, we'll never know about them...

yes i'm a huge fan of the UFC, watch it all the time. I think theres is very much skill in it. it just depends on what you mean as skill. i may have different perspectives on what skill is. i think a great example of skill is andrei arlovski. very good technical fighter. I agree that dim mak is very effective, but like you said only a few actually are masters of it. anyways, there are alot of UFC knockouts, and submissions are just as good. doens't matter how you win. hmm describe to me how you think a fight should go...

p.s.- do you have any advice on what philosophy books to read?

who would win?

Bruce Lee or a Shaolin Monk.

i honestly believe that bruce lee is in better physical condition than any shaolin monk. I say Bruce Lee hands down. After reading "the art of expressing the human body", you start to realize how good bruce really was. anything a shaolin monk can do, i bet bruce could do.

I am not being bias here, but i do think the monks would beat bruce lee in a fight. their kung-fu abilities are amazing. and their bodies were in much better shape than bruce lee's (well not much ebtter, but better) and bruce can do anything they can?!?!? i have never seen a pic of Bruce doing th one finger Zen, or balancing on spears

well, considering bruce does one finger one handed push-ups like nothing, 50 one handed chin-ups. his body couldn't be any more dense. who gives a damn if you can balance on spears. bruce could do that, but he didn't bother wasting his time. i guarantee bruce's abs were more dense than any shaolin monks. i watched the movie wheel of life, and none of the monks looked even close to bruce's physique.

Bruce can blanace on Sharp spears, but he just doesn't bother because its a waste of time?!?
isn't that the same as, he can't?!? i have never seen a picture of Bruce Lee matching what a monk can do, never!
one handed chin-ups anre on fingered push ups have all been a complished by the monks! Is body may have 'looked' denser, but that fact is it wasn't.
I havn't seen wheel of fire, what is it about?

is balancing on spears not a waste of time? what will it ever be used for. it is not the same as he can't, it is he doesn't give a damn about balancing on spears. well, if his body "looked" denser, than it probably was denser. bruce trained his body way harder in the terms of physical development. he never matched what a monk can do because its not practical at all. bruce lee was a perfectionist, he'd do anything they could. look at his forearms, honestly, his wrist flexors, and fingers, so amazingly strong.

wheel of LIFE is the movie of the real shaolin monks putting a demonstartion in theatres, showing off their skills, etc. the only thing i can truly say are great about them is their acrobatics, and meditation.

It is through their meditation that they are able to block Sensory neurons (i.e. not feel pain)
Its not a waste of time to balance on spears, or be stabbed by spears. It shows how string they are. their strenghtening techniques are awsome. They have the hardest training in the world for martial arts.
I guess another good thing for balancing on spears (expecially in the old days) was if they got attacked. Wouldn't you be scared if you stabbed a guy in the ribs with a spear and it didn't penertrate?!?!? i'd shit my self!
Both their un-armed, weapons, and meditaion are the best.
Things arn't always what they seem. He may have looked denser, but it doesn't mean he was.

I think that Bruce had potential to surpass the Shaolin Monks, but two factors came into it.
1) His movie carreer, he liked fame and being on film.
2) the unfortunate fact that he passed away. Not letting him have enough time.
If he didn't die, then i do believe that he could have surpassed the monks. BUt he did, and he didn't surpass them.

the shaolin monks don't really take "stabbing's with spears to the stomach, they just push against them, or put on them gently. also, the spears aren't razor sharp, they are dulled. no one could take a real powerful stab from a sharp spear. we are only human. bruce could block out pain, no doubt. he would win, no doubt in my mind.

fortunatly, what hapopens in our minds do not become reality, imagination can create anything.
The spears arn't dulled, They arn't 'razar' sharp either, but they are able to perice human skin, even if they are only pushed up against them. And when i said being stabbed in a fight, its a figure of speech. But having sharp spears pushed into your windpipe, into your ribs and stomach, is not always easy to withstand.

thats all set up. they put it on the right angle so the spear bends, i watched a documentary on it.

Thats Stupid! Your making up excuses to beter strenghten your arguement!
A Stirdy Roof cannot survive on Wobbly Foundations!


I just went to a site, that was mentioning Bruce Lee, it was saying some of his great moments from his childhood. It turns out, according to this site, that bruce only won one thing, in 1958 he Won a cha-cha dancing contest in Hong Kong at age 18 (approx date)
Chuck Norris, won KArate Championships, Ali won Boxing.
What did Bruce win? cha-cha dance.

Although i am well aware that dacing helps with foto work and co-ordination of martial arts, how can you say that he's a better martial artist than a 6 time world Champion in Karate?

well, if you did your research, you'd know that bruce didn't bother with tournaments because most of them were non-contact, and it was decided by a pannel of judges on who COULD have hurt the other person. tournamets back then were lame. and instead of wasting his time, he worked on perfecting his body. chuck norris was a champion, BUT Bruce Lee taught him. what does that tell you? Bruce was instructing all of the champions. if bruce wanted too, he could have been a 25 time champion, because no one would have even come close to touching him.

i'm not making excuses to better my arguement, its the truth. i watched a documentary of a former monk who demonstartes how they perform that kind of stuff. its all fake man. i mean theres still pressure on their neck, they just make it look alot harder then it is.

Think what you want to believe

now, i dont mind people admiring a true legend but when they start saying he is the best of all time that annoys me,
Firstly- he was probably the best to appear on film.
Secondly- people have no proof that he could beat a monk or a top sensei or something of that nature.
im an admirer myself but i do believe there are people out there who are better and thats my opinion.

Someone else who isn't caug